Arbor Update

Ann Arbor Area Community News

Candlelight Vigil for Peace & Ceasefire In the Middle East

26. July 2006 • Chuck Warpehoski
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Take a stand for peace and a ceasefire in the Middle East.

Join Michigan Peaceworks and Interfaith Council for Peace and Justice on Sunday, July 30 at 8:30 p.m. in Downtown Ann Arbor for a candlelight vigil. We’ll have signs, banner, and candles—just bring your self, your friends, and your hopes & prayers for peace.

Candlelight Vigil for Peace in the Middle East



  1. Here’s a little information about one of the co-sponsors:

    HURON VALLEY GREENS
    a local chapter of the Michigan Green Party
    548 S. Main St., Ann Arbor, MI 48104
    http://www.hvgreens.org ph. (734) 663-3555

    RESOLUTION ON MICHIGAN PEACEWORKS

    Adopted by consensus at the regular business meeting of the Huron Valley Greens on May 8, 2006.

    WHEREAS the stated mission of the Ann Arbor-based Michigan Peaceworks (hereafter “Peaceworks”) is: “Peaceworks is a grassroots organization dedicated to peace, democracy, civil rights, and civil liberties. To that end, we undertake education and action on local and state levels to influence U.S. foreign and domestic policy;” and,

    WHEREAS the stated “major goal areas” of Peaceworks include: providing “accurate information and analysis about the ‘War on Terrorism’ and nonviolent alternatives;” fostering and promoting “a viable community organizing model (a philosophy, style of work, and goals that serve to mobilize community action);” and creating and maintaining “a safe space for dissent;” and,

    WHEREAS the Ann Arbor-based Peaceworks is one of Michigan’s largest organizations dedicated to peace; and,

    WHEREAS based upon the overlap of Green values with the purported values of Peaceworks, there is likely to be a significant number of Greens attracted to or already supporting Peaceworks; and,

    WHEREAS, based upon the testimony of persons with direct, personal knowledge of the matters described below, the Huron Valley Greens make the following findings of fact:

    1.Peaceworks’ predecessor, the Ann Arbor Area Committee for Peace (AAACP), was nominally a membership-based organization.
    2.A struggle over internal democracy in Peaceworks (then AAACP) came to a head in late 2002 and early 2003 after Steering Committee members overwhelmingly voted against and refused to implement the group’s “Call for Peace in the Middle East.”
    3.The Call was the result of months of work by a duly appointed subcommittee and was approved by 78% of voting members before the Steering Committee’s action and committed the organization to supporting “the Israeli and Palestinian peacemakers … who call on their fellow citizens to renounce violence” and “solidarity with all those working for peace in the Middle East.”
    4.The row led to the resignation of two Steering Committee members and the Call was removed from the Peaceworks web site in 2004-2005.
    5.Sometime in 2004-2005, Peaceworks dissolved its membership and is now governed by a self-selected, as opposed to member-selected, Board of Directors.
    6.In 2004, Peaceworks staged a march and rally on the first anniversary of the US invasion of Iraq and Peaceworks organizers imposed a gag rule on discussion of the Israel-Palestine conflict by invited speakers.
    7.On short notice Peaceworks retracted its speaking invitation to Teresa Al-Saraji, the mother of a US soldier in Iraq, apparently, due to her association with the Blue Triangle Network, an immigrant rights group.
    8.Ann Arbor City Council member Joan Lowenstein, a prominent local Zionist, was allowed to sit on the dais and speak at the 2004 rally.
    9.Peaceworks has refused to endorse or publicize the City of Ann Arbor Human Rights Commission’s “Resolution in Support of Ending U.S. Military Support for Israel” and did not support an Israel divestment resolution put before the Michigan Student Assembly in March, 2005.
    10.Peaceworks is not supporting the current campaign by University of Michigan faculty, students and staff to get the University Regents to appoint, under an apartheid-era Regents resolution, an advisory committee to investigate whether divestment from Israel is warranted.
    11.This divestment effort has been endorsed by, among others: Bishop Thomas J. Gumbleton, Ann Arbor’s Interfaith Council for Peace and Justice, Michigan Peace Team, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire, and Nobel Peace Prize Nominee Kathy Kelly.
    12.The 9/11 Commission Report and others have identified uncritical US support of Israel as a major source of anger and strife in the Arab and Muslim worlds.
    13.There is significant evidence that the interests of Israel were a major factor in the Bush administration’s decision to invade Iraq in 2003.
    14.In 2005, then-President of Peaceworks Eric Van De Vort physically assaulted a fellow peace activist at the September 24th Peaceworks march because he didn’t like the sign the man was holding.
    15.According to the victim, who asked that his name not be disclosed, Van De Vort repeatedly shoved him, “slammed his body” into him, and physically impeded his attempts to evade Van De Vort.
    16.The victim said he repeatedly asked Van De Vort to stop but he continued his attack until Peaceworks Board member Nazih Hassan intervened.
    17.An eyewitness to the assault, Dr. Thomas Kaeding, has confirmed details of the incident.
    18.Responding to a September 28th e-mail message sent to Van De Vort, Peaceworks staff, and the rest of the Board members, Hassan confirmed his knowledge of the incident and of the victim’s identity. His only other response was: “If he has a complaint he can send it directly to the Board.” Van De Vort and other Board members did not respond to another inquiry sent on October 8th
    19.Neither Van De Vort nor Peaceworks has ever publicly acknowledged, nor apologized to the victim for, the incident; and,

    WHEREAS “Greens believe in direct participation by all people in the environmental, political, and economic decisions that affect their lives;” and,

    WHEREAS “Greens promote nonviolent methods to oppose practices and policies with which we disagree, and guide our actions toward lasting community and global peace;” and,

    WHEREAS “Greens support a restructuring of social, political and economic institutions away from a system which is controlled by and mostly benefits the powerful few, to a democratic, less bureaucratic system;” and,

    WHEREAS the “Green Party of the United States (GPUS) publicly calls for divestment from and boycott of the State of Israel until such time as the full individual and collective rights of the Palestinian people are realized;” and,

    WHEREAS to “maximize the effect of the Green Party’s support for divestment and boycott of Israel … The party calls on all civil society institutions and organizations around the world to implement a comprehensive divestment and boycott program. Further, the party calls on all governments to support this program and to implement state level boycotts.”

    BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that the Huron Valley Greens find that Peaceworks’ structure and practices are inconsistent with its own stated mission and “major goal areas;” and,

    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Huron Valley Greens find that Peaceworks’ structure and practices are inconsistent with Green values and the policy of the GPUS; and,

    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Huron Valley Greens discourage Greens and other people of conscience from supporting—financially and otherwise—Peaceworks until such time as it:

    1.Becomes a truly grassroots organization with a membership empowered to actively participate in Peaceworks’ decision-making process; and,
    2.Publicly supports and works for a just peace in Palestine including:
    a.Full equality for Arab and other non-Jewish citizens of Israel; and,
    b.An end to the Israeli occupation of East Jerusalem, Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights; and,
    c.Including the return of Palestinian refugees to their homes and property in accordance with UN General Assembly Resolution 194.
    3.Publicly acknowledges, and apologizes for, the mistreatment of Teresa Al-Saraji and of the victim of Eric Van De Vort; and,

    BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a copy of this resolution will be sent by the Recording Secretary by postal mail to Peaceworks; and,

    BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the Huron Valley Greens encourage the Green Party of Michigan to take actions consistent with Green values and this resolution to publicly censure Peaceworks.


       —Break the Silence    Jul. 27 '06 - 05:14AM    #
  2. I see your point, Blaine: the organizers are not one-sided enough.


       —PoV    Jul. 27 '06 - 08:50AM    #
  3. Too bad the Huron Valley Greens have “jumped the shark”. I can now ask HVGreens why they support screaming at children as they go to worship and what they hope that will accomplish.

    Peace indeed.


       —Young OWSider    Jul. 27 '06 - 11:39AM    #
  4. Turn that question on yourself, Blaine: is there no act performed on behalf of the Palestinians to which you would take offense, express outrage? How about the the young Muslim girl who died when her home in Israel was struck by a Hezbollah rocket launched from Lebanon. (See New York Times photos from earlier this week; make ready a box of Kleenex.)

    Was Hezbollah aiming at her? No … and yes: they aim at nothing, everything, anything. Their intent is to induce terror.

    And in a small way, you and your fanatical loonies screaming at little girls on their way to worship have the same aim, the same objective.


       —PoV    Jul. 27 '06 - 12:13PM    #
  5. Hey Blaine, what’s the deal with all the pseudonyms?


       —Brandon    Jul. 27 '06 - 02:18PM    #
  6. Maybe it’s not Blaine, folks. It could be someone else. Someone high up in the local Greens, perhaps?

    Peace.

    Oh, and I’m not a Zionist, but thanks for trying to pigeonhole me. In that respect, you’re eerily similar to George “With Us or Against Us” Bush.

    Additionally, you’re setting up straw man arguments here. I just said that I think the local Greens lose some credibility when they scream at Jews going to temple. I didn’t say anything about taking “affense”. I mean, what’s your screaming in Ann Arbor going to do to help the problem?

    I’ll light a candle and pray for peace, for by my actions I will be a symbol. You just go ahead spreading “peace” by violently screaming at your fellow citizens as they go to worship.


       —Young OWSider    Jul. 27 '06 - 03:27PM    #
  7. When’s the last time you prayed for the School of the Assassins?

    When’s the last time you had candle vigils for “both sides”: for Latin American death squads AND the peasants they massacred?

    Never, I hope.

    Years ago, when ICPJ was able to maintain relative silence on Palestine…

    ...ICPJ led all kinds of events against the School of the Assassins, which trained Latin American death squad militaries.

    ICPJ never used the word “both sides” then.

    One side had all the military might. ICPJ fought them 100%.

    ICPJ-ers went to jail demanding that the military death squads be shut down.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The OTHER side were desperately impoverished peasants.

    ICPJ supported oppressed peasants, in those days.

    Some of those peasants, in El Salvador, in Guatemala, tried to resist. Most couldn’t or wouldn’t.

    And ICPJ stood with all those oppressed peasants: 100%, not 50%.

    ICPJ never said “both sides” were victims.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Today, you have the same massive, heavily nuclearized (!) military, this time an Israeli military, with the 1st or 2nd best air force on Earth.

    ICPJ will not stand against the Israeli state.

    ICPJ will not stand against the Israeli military, not 100%, not 1%.

    No, today, ICPJ stands with “both sides”!

    Today, you have the same desperately impoverished peasantry, strangled by that Israeli military.

    ICPJ will not stand with those peasants, not 100%, not 1%.

    Because this time, the peasants are Palestinian.

    And ICPJ is on its knees before the Zionists, and their checks.

    What a disgrace…

    Today, to pay its rent and salaries… ICPJ is lighting candles for “both sides”.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    This moral collapse on Palestine infects all of ICPJ’s work, makes it all more conservative.

    Any ICPJ employee who tries to stand up publicly, in City Council, for ICPJ’s own divest-from-the-Israeli-military resolution…

    ...That ICPJ employee would be gone the next day.

    Isn’t that true?


       —Zionized ICPJ    Jul. 27 '06 - 04:09PM    #
  8. Please don’t cut-and-paste entire (or huge fragments of) articles; the URL is enough to allow people to read the full thing if they want.

    Note that you can make links in comments by enclosing the link text in quotes, followed by a colon and the url; for example,

    "arborupdate.com":www.arborupdate.com

    will result in

    arborupdate.com


       —Bruce Fields    Jul. 27 '06 - 04:24PM    #
  9. For a another view of the situation, check out this documentary, (it is worth the 120 minutes):

    Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land


       —Mark    Jul. 27 '06 - 05:57PM    #
  10. I know I shouldn’t get into all of this, but as a firm supporter of ICPJ, I feel I at least have to say something.

    ICPJ is an Interfaith organization working to organize people of faith on various peace and justice issues. This is at the core of what ICPJ does.

    Never has ICPJ pandered to any group for the sake of their money.

    ICPJ values talking to people from all faith communities in a polite and respectful manner to build community and work for peace. This mission is in conflict with calling any group offensive names or taking actions that are offensive to a particular faith community.

    The peace vigil on Sunday is speaking out for Peace in the Middle East. Peace for both sides.

    There is nothing wrong with other organizations or other individuals taking stands in opposition to this. At the same time, there should be nothing wrong with an Interfaith organization trying to bring together groups that are divided by this issue. That is what ICPJ does.

    And for the record, ICPJ would not fire an employee for speaking out. Hopefully that employee would talk with others in the organization before doing so. Anyway, ICPJ only has 1.5 paid employees, and both of them are interested in working with all faith communities in a peaceful, respectful manner. If speaking out at City Council worked toward this goal, then that could be a possible action.

    I guess I’m just speaking to no one who will really listen, but I feel the need to respond with love and peace.


       —Nancy Shore    Jul. 27 '06 - 06:49PM    #
  11. Can you really go to City Council, with love for Palestine, and push for divestment from the Israeli military?

    I hope so.
    ICPJ’s own resolution, of 2003, empowers you to do just that.

    Or else what is love?


       —Love Palestine?    Jul. 27 '06 - 07:39PM    #
  12. You should either march for peace or march for a ceasefire, but the two don’t co-exist. A cease-fire will give Hezbollah a chance to restock it’s weaponry and attack Israel on another day. A temporary peace that would lead to more killing at another time.

    If Hezbollah were disarmed and stopped attacking Israel and worked as a legitimate faction of the Lebanese government, maybe we could have peace. If Israel were disarmed it would take a matter of days before they would cease to exist as a nation.

    Do you think the Ann Arbor march will be similar to the one they recently held in Dearborn, where they carried both Lebanese and Hezbollah flags and cheered the picture of the leader of the Hezbollah?

    Mark, I thought your documentary was the biggest media propaganda item I have ever viewed. We need to stop the hatred that fuels this conflict. It is a horrific atrocity to have the large number of civilian deaths we have seen recently. However, when civilians attack and use their children as shields to prevent a counterattack, they lose the moral high ground.

    I stand with Israel and I stand with peaceful Muslims. They’ve never attacked my country. They don’t capture innocents and chop off their heads. They don’t commit terrorists acts in countries all over the world. But I stand against all acts of terrorism. The best PR for both Palestinians and Lebanese would be for their leaders to arrest and convict those persons who live amongst them who plot and carry out acts of terror in the name of religion.

    I would never advocate divestment from Israel. I think it’s very important that we should continue to support our allies in this fight against terror. If we don’t help them, they won’t help us the next time Hezbollah attacks our citizens.


       —Not like Blaine at all    Jul. 27 '06 - 08:06PM    #
  13. What facts did you not like, in that documentary?

    The facts of what is being done to Palestine, in Palestine, by invaders and occupiers?


       —Documentary    Jul. 27 '06 - 08:10PM    #
  14. [37 inline images in one comment is uncool; replaced with links. Please don't do that again.--ed.]

    [image] This man never did anything to harm Israel.

    [image] Neither did this boy.

    [image] Neither did he.

    [image] Hezbollah never did anything like this.

    [image] So what did the Lebanese do to deserve this sort of treatment?

    [image] Was it for harboring Hezbollah?

    [image] Well, what did Hezbollah do to provoke this outrage?

    [image] Attacked Israel, you say? Kidnapped their troops?

    [image] The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them. The forces were trying to keep the soldiers’ captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity. [Forbes 7/12/06]

    [image] Captured two soldiers, trespassing in Lebanon?

    [image] In the afternoon, the scene changed in the streets of southern Lebanon, which was the target of 32 Israeli raids that mainly targeted areas near the area where the two soldiers were captured in Aita al Chaab, close to the border with Israel. [Deutsche Presse-Agentur 7/12/06]

    [image] So if Hezbollah was responding defensively, what does that make Israel’s role in all of this carnage?

    [image] The Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. “Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon,” a statement by Hezbollah said. “The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place,” it added. The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they “infiltrated” into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border. [Hindustan Times 7/12/06]

    [image] This man never did anything to harm Israel. Israel does not care:

    “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

    [image] According to the Lebanese police force, the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aïta Al-Chaab, near to the border with Israel, where an Israeli unit had penetrated in middle of morning. [AFP 7/12/06]

    [image] “I am honored to be here to speak about something that can never be said enough: America’s commitment to the safety and security of the State of Israel is unwavering.” Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, Address to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, April 1, 2003. [PIWP]

    [image] Imagine that… AMERICA SUPPORTS KILLING ARABS AND MAKING EXCUSES FOR IT, TOO

    [image] A dead little Iraqi girl in Basra with a pile of corpses in background. These are your fellow human beings, literally butchered to death by American pilots who dropped cluster bombs on them.

    [image] It’s all made possible, with your tax dollars.

    [image] WASHINGTON, July 21 — The Bush administration is rushing a delivery of precision-guided bombs to Israel, which requested the expedited shipment last week after beginning its air campaign against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon, American officials said Friday. [NY Times, July 21 2006]

    [image] UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.

    The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling, diplomats familiar with the probe say. [BBC News, 7/26/06 ]

    [image] Can you blame the U.N. for being there?

    [image] Israeli Justice Minister: IDF Entitled to Kill Everyone in South Lebanon
    He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in.

    He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter. [BBC News, July 27 2006 ]

    [image] Look more like nuns to me. But after this, who could blame them if they did support Hezbollah.

    [image] It is obvious who the real terrorists are here.

    [image] Hint: It’s where war = peace, where theocracy + plutocracy = democracy, where wars are launched on lies.

    [image] How stupid could the public possibly be?

    [image] Dumb enough to think that this is “fighting terror?”

    [image] TRANSLATION: According to the Lebanese police force, the two soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aïta Al-Chaab close to the border, whereas Israeli television indicated that they had been captured in Israeli territory. [fr.news.yahoo 7/12/06]

    [image] The militant group Hezbollah said it captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes across the border in southern Lebanon on Wednesday. [chinabroadcast 7/12/06]

    [image] Israel intends to arrest more senior Hamas figures in addition to the dozens of Palestinian lawmakers and ministers arrested in a predawn raid Thursday, the Justice Ministry said Thursday.

    The detention of Hamas parliamentarians in the early hours of Thursday morning had been planned several weeks ago and received approval from Mazuz on Wednesday. [Haaretz , three days after the other “kidnapping”]

    [image] Israel stages these events. Israel wants to take over the Middle East.

    “When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

    [image] [image] [image] The U.S. wants it, too. Because there’s big bucks in carnage. That’s the only reason we really invaded Iraq, any way you slice it. Behind the oil, the military interests, the fanatical Judeo-Christian interests, it’s the money.

    [image] You will notice that Hezbollah’s interests cannot be sliced this way. What profit has Hezbollah ever received from terror? Only the American and Israeli interests have profited from the war on terror.

    [image] Only the most mentally bankrupt and morally insane individuals on Earth could not tell which side is the real terrorist.

    [image] There is no “war on terrorism”. There is only the U.S./Israeli military/government’s perennial war OF terrorism which slaughters innocent people all over the world, outside the U.S. and within it. The thousands of American people in the World Trade Center, the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and now, 400 Lebanese, 9 Canadians, and 4 U.N. observers and counting joined the ranks of the millions of people whom our and their government and military have brutally butchered for over 50+ years.

    ****

    How to Create a “Terrorist”

    1. Take a happily married man with a couple of kids, a comfortable house, and a reasonable job. 2. Drop a bomb on his house while he is at work. 3. Tell this man his wife and kids are dead. 4. Let him see what remains of his house and family. 5. Bomb his workplace. 6. Destroy the infrastructure around him. 7. Give him some time to contemplate the circumstances of his life.

    “Terrorist” created.

    The “War on Terror”, by its design, will exponentially create “terrorists”.

    Think about it.


       —Oh, you know    Jul. 28 '06 - 01:58AM    #
  15. Hmmmm. Where are the pictures of the damage caused to Israel? Do Hezbollah bombs ever kill anyone? What do you think caused Israel to become so aggressive? Maybe 50 plus years of its neighbors attacking their citizens. Maybe a PLO whose aim was to destroy their nation state. Maybe a Pan-Arab Alliance to destroy their people and wipe them off the face of the earth. Maybe 1500 years of Muslim aggression. Do you really think you can convince rational thinking individuals that terrorism is justified at any time?

    By the way, do you know where I can buy those cool T-shirts?


       —Not like Blaine at all    Jul. 28 '06 - 11:42AM    #
  16. Not like Blaine at all,

    You asked, “Do you think the Ann Arbor march will be similar to the one they recently held in Dearborn, where they carried both Lebanese and Hezbollah flags and cheered the picture of the leader of the Hezbollah?”

    As an organizer of the march, I can say that we are focusing on a message that says stop the cycle of violence, ceasefire now, and re-start the peace process.

    As this thread indicates, that doesn’t mean that extremests won’t be there, but I think the best way to address that is to overwhelmingly outnumber them.

    ICPJ and Michigan Peaceworks thought hard about hosting this event, and I wondered about posting it, just because of the kind of reaction we see in this thread. But we decided that it would be irresponsible to abandon the issue to the exremists.

    And the position of the march is not extreme. It is in line with the Pope , major Jewish peace groups , and many other mainstream groups.

    I hear that you don’t support a ceasefire, and I disagree. As do many other people in the community—people whose politics are very different from Blaine’s. I think it’s important that these other voices be heard in Washington, in Washtenaw County, and in the Middle East.


       —Chuck Warpehoski    Jul. 28 '06 - 02:42PM    #
  17. I don’t ask ICPJ to support my point of view.

    I asl ICPJ to support its OWN, voted-upon point of view:

    To demand divestment, publicly, from the Israeli military.

    A very similar position was also overwhelming approved, by a democratic and highly-publicized vote of Michigan Peaceworks, when it called itself AAACP:

    The AAACP (Peaceworks) membership voted for a Resolution to overwhelmingly to oppose military aid to Israel.

    As you know.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Yes, I do ask Peaceworks to stand for that Palestine Resolution, which its members so overwhelmingly approved…

    ....Before every last Palestinian and Lebanese is dead, at the hands of that Israeli military.

    Remember, that same Israeli military just murdered 4 unarmed U.N. observers, after shelling around their post for 6 hours, after being warned 10 times to stop it.

    There is no need for me to keep bothering you, if you would stand up for your own principles:

    * Push for divestment from the Israeli military (Yes, you voted for that in 2003.)

    * Publicly oppose military aid to the State of Israel (Yes, you voted for that, too).

    ******************************

    That has nothing to do with religion.

    That has everything to do with acting like a real anti-war group, a real peace group that stands with oppressed peasants (or it used to, anyway.)


       —Blaine    Jul. 28 '06 - 04:18PM    #
  18. “Only the most mentally bankrupt and morally insane individuals on Earth could not tell which side is the real terrorist.”

    Absolutely true statement… both sides have ‘real’ terrorists; arguing which side is worse is superfluous.

    Who has the courage to be the first on either side to admit the truth and put their weapons down? Until then expect more of the above… on both sides.


       —abc    Jul. 28 '06 - 05:04PM    #
  19. ICPJ is a peace group, so we don’t support military aid to any country: Israel, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt…the list goes on.

    And we look for the most effective way to promote a just and lasting peace for all people in the region, and right now that means calling for a cease fire.


       —Chuck Warpehoski    Jul. 28 '06 - 07:08PM    #
  20. I am totally OK with cutting off every penny of military aid to all those places.

    ICPJ went through much trouble to re-draft, and re-re-draft, and approve, a Resolution specifically and clearly singling out Israel.

    Because of Israel’s violent ethnic supremacy policies, specifically because Israel’s is the ONLY military, of all those you listed, which has been invading another land, occupying and destroying its native population—yeah, ICPJ singled Israel out for that special mention.

    So do I.

    Again, I do ask you to stand up for your own ICPJ Resolution, or else change ICPJ’s name to “Crop Walk. Inc.”


       —Blaine    Jul. 28 '06 - 07:22PM    #
  21. >>> Hmmmm. Where are the pictures of the damage caused to Israel?

    That’s a good question, NLBAA. You can’t find them because they don’t exist. No Palestinian or Lebanese attack on Israel ever did damage of that magnitude.

    >>> Do Hezbollah bombs ever kill anyone?

    You don’t get it. Israel invaded Lebanon, not the other way around. Hezbollah has been attacked, of course they retaliated. What did you expect, they would just let Israel steal their land?

    >>> What do you think caused Israel to become so aggressive?

    >>> Same reason America was aggressive toward Iraq. Fundamentalist psychopaths and big businessmen and bankers conspired to trick the public into going along with it.

    >>>Maybe 50 plus years of its neighbors attacking their citizens.

    ...in response to Israeli aggression

    >>> Maybe a PLO whose aim was to destroy their nation state.

    ...on the land they stole, for the people they brutally oppressed…

    >>> Maybe a Pan-Arab Alliance to destroy their people and wipe them off the face of the earth.

    Oh? And what “Pan-Arab Alliance” might you be referring to? Hezbollah is a political party with competitors, Al-Qaeda is a CIA operation that most Arabs despise for the war that they instigated.

    >>> Maybe 1500 years of Muslim aggression.

    You just make things up as you go, don’t you? Unfortunately, the historical record is totally clear that it is white people doing most the aggression of the last 1500 years. And Islam didn’t exist 1500 years ago, by the way.

    >>> Do you really think you can convince rational thinking individuals that terrorism is justified at any time?

    I don’t have to, NLBAA, because defending one’s country within that country’s borders is not committing terrorism. To rabid Americans and Israelis it might be, but any human can see that when country invades another, the country that’s being invaded is not being the terrorist, the aggressor is.

    So I’d have to say no, I don’t expect rational people to think terrorism is justified at any time. Israel is not rational and their terrorism is never justified.

    As the photos clearly show, Israel has invaded Lebanon, not the other way around, and no amount of cognitive gymanstics and lies can get around it.


       —Oh, you know    Jul. 29 '06 - 12:46AM    #
  22. Oh, you know:

    What’s it like to live in Neverneverland? Maybe I should come visit you when I need a break from reality?

    “You don’t get it. Israel invaded Lebanon, not the other way around. Hezbollah has been attacked, of course they retaliated. What did you expect, they would just let Israel steal their land?”

    A) The invasion came AFTER Hezbollah crossed the internationally recognized border of Israel. Hezbollah attacked the Israeli army. Now, if you’re of the opinion, like myself, that Israel’s response has been disproportionate, that’s legitimate. The devastation to Lebanon is horrible, and, in my mind, not justifiable. But I also think that it is plausible for two military entities to battle each other. If Hezbollah wanted to fight, it’s reasonable to expect Israel to fight them. Further, Hezbollah is not a state; it’s an organization. They don’t have land for Israel to steal. You’re trying to make excuses for Hezbollah to be “defensive” but as a non-state actor, they aren’t. If by stealing land you mean Lebanon’s, well, Israel left in May 2000. With the exception of Shebaa Farms (which Israel and the international community consider to be part of Syria) Israel doesn’t occupy Lebanon in that regard (although there is an army now, but prior to Hezbollah’s attack there wasn’t).

    B)”>>>Maybe 50 plus years of its neighbors attacking their citizens.

    ...in response to Israeli aggression” Ummm, actually most of those wars with state actors were started by Israel’s neighbors, not the other way around. Just a small historical correction.

    C)”>>> Maybe 1500 years of Muslim aggression.

    You just make things up as you go, don’t you? Unfortunately, the historical record is totally clear that it is white people doing most the aggression of the last 1500 years. And Islam didn’t exist 1500 years ago, by the way.”

    NLBAA using the term “1500 years of Muslim aggression” is a little loaded and racist, but that doesn’t suddenly dismiss the lives of Jews living in Europe and the Middle East throughout the last 2000 years. To be fair, both Christian and Muslim states and governments have discriminated and persecuted Jews in the last two millenia. Oh, and I hope you’re not lumping Jews into that “white people doing most of the aggression” category. Nearly half of all Jews on the planet are non-white, and besides, prior to 1948, Jews had NO authority over anyone, including their own lives.

    One can be against the indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon. But this labelling of everything as black and white, “if Israel bad then Hezbollah must be good” is philosophically incorrect. Israel has done bad things, but Hezbollah ain’t no human rights organization.


       —Jared Goldberg    Jul. 29 '06 - 04:24AM    #
  23. Jared:

    Look at my original post. Contained six sources from mainstream newspapers all over the world (French Press Agency, Forbes, German Press Agency, Hindustan Times, Chinese press agency, etc) that stated that Hezbollah captured the two IDF troops IN LEBANON. Israel sent the troops in there to provoke the incident.

    Israel had an illegal military presence in Lebanon, Hezbollah captured them, which is legal, and in response Israel bombed everything it could and stormed in. The neo-con agenda (which has never been wrong before) calls for a sustained Allied presence in Lebanon, “Allied” meaning U.S., Israel, and maybe some British presence.

    This is geo-politics and not defense at all.

    As for B, well, there is too much to get into at this time.

    As for C, Hezbollah “may not be no human rights organization” but to the Lebanese they probably are right now. Nobody else is fighting back, least of all the U.N. who were deliberately targeted by Israeli guided missiles, the BBC reported yesterday.

    As for the historical persecution of the Jews, well, I don’t think you’re ready to understand how the game is really played (Illuminati research is too tainted with disinfo to persuade the skeptics), but what matters is the here and now, when Israel is the aggressor, and not the victim, as I explained in excessive detail earlier.


       —OYN    Jul. 29 '06 - 06:32AM    #
  24. OYN:

    From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5180202.stm):

    “How did the current crisis start?

    The Hezbollah raid into Israel, in which eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two were captured, was a stunning and provocative attack. ”

    From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/29/mideast.main/index.html):

    “Israel began its operations against in southern Lebanon on July 12, after the Iranian-backed Hezbollah launched a cross-border raid, killing three soldiers and capturing two others. Five more soldiers were also killed.”

    From the New York Times (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0D17FD35540C708DDDAE0894DE404482)

    “The Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah surprised Israel with a bold daylight assault across the border on Wednesday, leading to fighting in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and at least eight killed, and elevating recent tensions into a serious two-front battle.”

    It’s ok to be wrong. It’s internationally accepted that Hezbollah crossed the border into Israel and kidnapped the two soldiers. You can believe it or not, just as you could believe that world is flat. Everyone else accepts these premises, so you will be somewhat alone.

    As for the Israeli presence in Lebanon, are you referring to the Shebaa Farms? Or something else? Because if it’s something else, it’s new to the world. Israeli ended its occupation of Lebanon in 2000. Please clarify.

    “As for the historical persecution of the Jews, well, I don’t think you’re ready to understand how the game is really played (Illuminati research is too tainted with disinfo to persuade the skeptics”

    What the HELL does that mean? Are you saying 2000 years of Jewish persecution was imagined? Oh boy, you truly are living in Neverneverland.


       —Jared Goldberg    Jul. 29 '06 - 05:21PM    #
  25. “Mark, I thought your documentary was the biggest media propaganda item I have ever viewed.”

    NLBAA, that’s simply Orwellian. I watched the video and found it lacking all but very minimal individual bias in some of the interviewees—so small that I hesitate to even mention it but for the desire to be as objective as possible. You’ll need to be specific in your criticism to be taken seriously. I encourage others to watch the video. I think it provides a useful perspective to complement that provided by Jason in the other thread.

    “We need to stop the hatred that fuels this conflict.”

    We can’t stop hatred. We can stop violence.


       —Steve Bean    Jul. 29 '06 - 06:27PM    #
  26. Steve:

    ”’We need to stop the hatred that fuels this conflict.’

    We can’t stop hatred. We can stop violence.”
    What if hatred leads to violence? Just some food for thought.

    Seattle Shooting


       —Jared Goldberg    Jul. 29 '06 - 08:00PM    #
  27. Jared, I was speaking in the context of state-sponsored (and foreign-government—i.e., U.S.—sponsored) violence, not random, individual violence.

    Hatred doesn’t always lead to violence, and hatred isn’t the only thing that leads to violence. Violence beyond the level of the individual (and sometimes even then) can be anticipated and avoided or prevented through proven means. Violence often leads to hatred and also to more violence. Hatred and violence are choices, as are the decisions to fund the carrying out of violence. Dessert for thought.

    Still hungry? Hatred is an extreme (though unnecessary) outgrowth of fear and sadness, and therefore should be able to be understood by others, since we can all relate to fear and sadness. Some people prefer to throw “evil” into the mix and avoid the humanity of it all, usually for the purpose of pursuing ulterior, selfish motives (most likely also grounded in fear.)

    How does the cycle end? With an outside mediator. Want peace? Propose an objective mediator (no U.S. Presidents need apply) and compensate and support them in line with the value to society of the avoided costs of destruction that would be prevented.


       —Steve Bean    Jul. 29 '06 - 08:43PM    #
  28. Jared:

    Funny sources you’ve picked. I like the BBC News one the best, saying that “eight Israeli soldiers were killed” followed by the NY Times article.

    Click on the link to the NYT story:

    CORRECTION APPENDED

    DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 1528 WORDS -The Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah surprised Israel with a bold daylight assault across the border on Wednesday, leading to fighting in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and at least eight killed, and elevating recent tensions into a serious two-front battle. Israel, already waging a military operation in the…

    Correction: July 14, 2006, Friday A front-page caption yesterday about the Israeli military response to a cross-border raid into Israel by members of Lebanon’s Hezbollah militia misstated the number of Israeli soldiers killed during the raid. It was three, not eight. (Five Israeli soldiers were killed later when Israel sent ground forces into Lebanon.)

    So, right off the bat, the NYT got at least part of the story wrong, and then, seven days later, the BBC Online Editor, in the article that you cite, is still repeating the same error.

    Not only that, but your third source, CNN, is clearly being deceptive when it says,

    “Israel began its operations against in southern Lebanon on July 12, after the Iranian-backed Hezbollah launched a cross-border raid, killing three soldiers and capturing two others. Five more soldiers were also killed.

    Because the five other soldiers, the NYT article you cited, explains: “Five Israeli soldiers were killed later when Israel sent ground forces into Lebanon.”

    So clearly, the CNN piece has the chronology wrong, saying Israel attacked Lebanon AFTER the five soldiers were killed.

    So all three of your sources clearly have at least SOME of their information wrong. But that does not mean that the part about Hezbollah capturing the soldiers within Israel’s border is incorrect. But since my sources state the opposite—that the soldiers were captured in Lebanon—this calls for investigation.

    Knowing what we already know about your sources, let’s look at mine.

    Hindustan Times says, “The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they “infiltrated” into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.”

    The Lebanese police? Hezbollah is not the Lebanese police. Why would the Lebanese police have any information on the soldiers’ capture if it occured outside of Lebanese borders? Do you really think a paramilitary organization would turn its prisoners over to the police?

    Common sense: How could Hezbollah 1) infiltrate Israel, 2) capture two IDF troops (which is not easy to do in the first place), and 3) take them back across the border to Lebanon?

    Israel made no secret of being well-prepared for an attack on Lebanon, and the quickness of its response supports it.

    So how likely is it that

    1) Hezbollah smuggled captured troops out of Israel successfully,
    2) International newspapers “mistakenly” reported that the troops were captured in Lebanon, all naming the same location, Aita al Chaab, and
    3) Then Hezbollah gets the police to corroborate the story?

    “Hey police, we’re going to provoke a war with Israel, a country with U.S.-supplied bombs, planes, and tanks and an itchy trigger finger. Will you help cover our butts, even though you’re likely to be attacked as a result of this?”

    Which of course raises the question of motive.

    Why would Hezbollah invite Israel to attack Lebanon when the consequences were so predictable? Are they suicidal?

    Well, if you believe Arabs are intellectually inferior, perhaps you do.

    But a more rational person might see a more likely motive on the Israeli side. These recent events as a continuation of the neo-con agenda, as set forth by Zionists Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Elliot Abrams, Robert Kagan, William Kristol, James Woolsey, and their allies in the White House, who quite clearly called for engaging conflict in the Middle East as a pre-text for expanding U.S. hegemony in the area (and stealing their oil). And of course Israel goes along with all of this; after all, it suits their agenda.

    “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

    Well, a lot’s changed since then, but not the agenda, it seems.

    Maybe the average Israeli doesn’t want war any more than the average American, but take a look at who’s running the country and the propaganda, and—surprise surprise—it’s the war-profiteers.

    To recap:

    Your sources can’t get their stories straight, weren’t even credible in the first place , and told a story that makes no logical sense.

    My sources are internationally recognized, and have an explanation that is consistent with what we know about American and Israeli intentions.

    Looking better than the “flat-Earther” jab. But let’s examine this other claim of yours, that “It’s internationally accepted that Hezbollah crossed the border into Israel and kidnapped the two soldiers.”

    More obviously untrue things have been, and still are, internationally accepted. It does not make them true.

    But the funny thing is that the world has sided with Lebanon anyway.

    The world community stands with Lebanon:

    After Iran, Canadians see Israel as biggest threat to peace, poll finds

    Referring to Israel’s attacks Friday on Lebanon’s international airport and other transport links, the latest in a three-day offensive, Chirac asked aloud whether Lebanon’s destruction was not the ultimate goal.

    “One could ask if today there is not a sort of will to destroy Lebanon, its equipment, its roads, its communication…”

    EU denies suppressing Israel poll finding

    The European Commission denied Thursday having intervened to exclude a potentially damaging poll finding about Israel from a survey on Europeans’ views published this week (from 2003).

    The EU executive said that the finding, which reportedly says that Europeans believe Israel poses the biggest threat to world peace, will be published next Monday along with the full results from the survey.

    “There was no political decision,” said commission spokesman Gerassimos Thomas, asked about the report in the Spanish daily El Pais which cited findings that 59 percent of Europeans rate Israel as the most threatening country, ahead of the United States, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and North Korea.

    Somehow Jared, I don’t feel “somewhat alone” at all.

    Toronto
    London
    Tel Aviv
    Amsterdam
    Ann Arbor
    Worldwide

    The “Israeli presence in Lebanon” I mentioned was the Israeli troops that were captured in Lebanon, not an occupying force.

    As for the last cryptic comment about the Illuminati, no Jared, I don’t think the persecution of the Jews was imagine, nor the persecution of all the world’s peoples. It’s class war and elite manipulation, that has always been the true underlying basis for all of these manufactured race wars.

    But given the level of person I’m dealing with here, one who actually makes excuses for murdering innocent children and believes what the mainstream press says, explaining the Illuminati to you would be like explaining calculus to a six-year-old.

    Pose all of the questions you want; I’ve made my point and much more.

    I’m leaving this forum; I only visited it after the news about Israel’s cyber-army

    WHILE Israel fights Hezbollah with tanks and aircraft, its supporters are campaigning on the internet.

    Israel’s Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages.

    In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate.

    Despite your efforts, it is becoming more and more obvious what is really going on.


       —Oh, you know    Jul. 30 '06 - 01:40AM    #
  29. Oh, you know:

    Look, I just picked a couple of news outlets at random. Some of them were archival stories from when the crisis began. You can go through them with a fine tooth comb. Still, even you recognize that the fine print isn’t whats debated here; it’s whether Hezbollah crossed over into Israel.

    At which point you turn over to “your” sources, in which you only quote one. “Hindustan Times says, ‘The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they ‘infiltrated’ into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.’” You’re right, Hezbollah wouldn’t consult the police. This makes me think that the police don’t have all the facts themselves.

    Do you trust Wikipedia? Which is peer edited? Here’s what wikipedia says on the current conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict):

    “At 9:05 AM local time (06:05 CET), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and villages of northern Israel as a diversionary tactic, injuring at least 8 Israelis according to some reports, and lightly injuring 5 according to others. Afterwards, a ground contingent of Hezbollah militants attacked two Israeli armored Humvees on a routine patrol along the Israel-Lebanon border near the Israeli village of Zar’it with anti-tank rockets, capturing two Israeli soldiers, and killing eight. According to the Lebanese police force and Hezbollah, the Israeli soldiers were attacked and captured on the Lebanese side of the border on 12 July during a mission to infiltrate the Lebanese town of Ayta al-Sha`b,although remains of the Humvees were found in Israel.”

    So, for the Lebanese police/Hezbollah position to be true, the Humvees the soldiers were driving should have been found in Lebanon. Unfortunately, the evidence suggests otherwise.

    Without pointing to your other sources, you go into this anecdotal rant about how it’s almost impossible for Hezbollah to go into Israel. “Common sense: How could Hezbollah 1) infiltrate Israel, 2) capture two IDF troops (which is not easy to do in the first place), and 3) take them back across the border to Lebanon?” Because they’ve done it before. In October 2000, Hezbollah crossed the border, captured or killed (don’t know exactly when they died), and took them back into Lebanon. Four years later they exchanged the bodies and another Israeli for assorted prisoners in Israeli jails. If this were a court of law, you would have lost.

    Even Nasrallah has said this was the intent of the operation (from the same Wikipedia article): “Hezbollah’s attack was named after a ‘promise’ by its leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah to capture Israeli soldiers and swap them for Samir Kuntar and other Lebanese prisoners held by Israel.”

    “Why would Hezbollah invite Israel to attack Lebanon when the consequences were so predictable? Are they suicidal?” A) They attacked Israel so they could get a prisoner exchange, which has happened before B) They did not think that Israel would bombard Lebanon. They figured this to be a normal prisoner exchange. I personally think that negotiations for a prisoner exchange would be the best idea, but that’s my opinion.

    “To recap:

    Your sources can’t get their stories straight, weren’t even credible in the first place , and told a story that makes no logical sense.” To recap, the international consensus is that Hezbollah crossed the border. Your sources aren’t credible, at least no more credible than mine, and the events that the international community (minus of course the patsies in the Lebanese government and Hezbollah) follow what has been Hezbollah policy for years.

    I don’t support the indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon; I don’t support the killings of civilians. I believe Israel should agree to a cease-fire and negotitations to get the soldiers back. You’re right, then, most of the world doesn’t want to see Lebanon completely destroyed and they want to see a ceasefire. Then you point to anti-Lebanon war pics as if everyone who supports a ceasefire also supports Hezbollah and their genocidal ideology and their version of what happened.

    They don’t. When I suggested you might feel alone, I meant you are alone in believing that Hezbollah did not cross the border into Israel. You can shill for Hezbollah all you want; it doesn’t make you a good person with upstanding ethics. It either makes you an anti-semite or a dumbass. You pick.

    “As for the last cryptic comment about the Illuminati, no Jared, I don’t think the persecution of the Jews was imagine, nor the persecution of all the world’s peoples. It’s class war and elite manipulation, that has always been the true underlying basis for all of these manufactured race wars.

    But given the level of person I’m dealing with here, one who actually makes excuses for murdering innocent children and believes what the mainstream press says, explaining the Illuminati to you would be like explaining calculus to a six-year-old.”

    See above. I DON’T make excuses for killing anyone. Don’t put words in my mouth. Look, I probably have more education than you do, so don’t patronize me. If you want to believe in Illuminati conspiracy theories, I could care less. But don’t present them as facts.

    Further, your other links are credible? Whatreallyhappened.com? Please.

    Finally, I’m not a part of Israel’s “cyber-army.” Your grandiose delusions are completely ridiculous. Besides, one could make the same accusations about you, just for the other side. Who knows why someone would campaign for Hezbollah on the internet, anonymously to boot?

    You can be against Israel’s bombing of civilians. I am, for the most part. But don’t start cheering for Hezbollah, either.


       —Jared Goldberg    Jul. 30 '06 - 05:14AM    #
  30. Regarding Blaine’s uruknet.info source, I clicked on a link on the front page: Saddam Hussein’s message to the American people. Here’s a choice quote:

    Saddam Hussein, ladies and gentlemen, is an honorable patriot and an honest man. He is a statesman resolute in implementing the law, just, but benevolent. He loves his people and his nation. He is straightforward, doesn’t double-cross or deceive.

    Uruknet.info appears to be a Baath mouthpiece. Another article “debunks” Saddam Hussein’s murderous attack on Kurdish civilians. Not that it has anything to do with anything, but it is demonstrative of Blaine’s one-sided sources and views.

    Getting back on topic, I think it’s important for people who want peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike to show up at tonight’s rally, and not let the Blaines of this world vent their despicable hatred for Jews unopposed. See you there!


       —PoV    Jul. 30 '06 - 06:15PM    #
  31. I don’t try to silence those demands. I speak in opposition to them. I try to expose the ignorance, bias, and hatred behind them.

    You doubt that “peace for all” will help the Palestinians?

    Your demagoguery is palpable.

    You have no interest in the fate of the Palestinians, just that there be no peace for Israel.


       —PoV    Jul. 30 '06 - 09:53PM    #
  32. [Cut-and-paste replaced by article. Again, please don't do that.--ed.]

    The “Human Shield” LIE Exposed
       —Get it?    Jul. 31 '06 - 06:12AM    #

  33. Israel using a Palestinian as a human shield


       —Yes, Israel uses human shields    Jul. 31 '06 - 06:15AM    #
  34. There’s a new Ann Arbor-based, anti-Zionist blog with info on Peaceworks and ICPJ at http://zionistsout.blogspot.com/


       —Zionists Out    Jul. 31 '06 - 12:32PM    #
  35. WANT PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST?
    WORK FOR JUSTICE!
    Stop the US financial, diplomatic, and military
    support for Israel that fuels the violence

    Here’s how:

    * Tell Congress to end all financial, diplomatic, and military aid to Israel

    * Don’t buy Israeli goods and tell businesses that sell Israeli goods to stop

    * Support divestment from Israel

    * Make sure you don’t own Israeli bonds or stocks

    * Get your retirement fund, union, and state and local governments to divest from Israel

    * Educate yourself and then speak out against apartheid Israel and the racist ideology of Zionism

    * Join a Palestinian solidarity group

    * Buy Palestinian olive oil


       —Zionists Out    Jul. 31 '06 - 12:49PM    #
  36. [Replaced another copy by a link. Please use comments to participate in the conversation and say something intelligent of your own, not to just cut-and-paste others' stuff.--ed.]

    Qana: Exterminating the Ants
       —Boycott Israel    Jul. 31 '06 - 08:52PM    #

  37. [Replaced yet another cut-and-paste by a link.--ed.]

    This shit's gotta stop
       —Israel threatens world peace    Jul. 31 '06 - 08:56PM    #

  38. “Is it not conceivable that the underlying problem might be that Lebanon needs a militia controlling its southern border because its next-door neighbor is run by psychopathic generals on a neocolonialist land-grabbing spree who don’t hesitate to use the capture to two soldiers as an excuse to destroy an entire country?”
    Wow, Arbor Update has been invaded by Hezbollah . . .

    “This boycott should extend to all Jewish-owned or -controlled businesses. The diaspora has gotten away with murder over the years, secretly supporting Israeli violence but hiding behind the specter of anti-Semitism in order to avoid being blamed for it.” Yes, because any and all Jews are responsible for Israel’s actions. I guess if Nasrallah here doesn’t get his way, maybe people should just shoot up Jewish community centers and federations (like in Seattle this past weekend) to get Israel to end the occupation.

    But wait, this guy’s not anti-semitic. He’s offering us a way out:
    “Boycotting Jewish businesses sounds entirely unfair, and it is. There should be a way out. We need some kind of international body to identify all Jewish-owned or -controlled businesses and allow them to escape the boycott by making a public statement disclaiming Zionism and Israeli violence, preferably coupled with a generous contribution to humanitarian relief for the victims of Zionist violence. ”

    So Jews, and only Jews, should be forced to pay for . . . what exactly?

    “The international body should be able to certify if a business is subject to the boycott or not, and should license a logo which complying businesses can put on their products so that decent human beings can buy them.” How ‘bout a yellow star, jackass?

    First it was the neo-Nazis, and now it is Hezbollah. Here’s my answer to your proposal: kiss my ass.


       —Jared Goldberg    Jul. 31 '06 - 09:26PM    #
  39. Ann Arbor is a Zionist town but the Zionists are losing their grip.

    In the little candle light vigil on Liberty and Main last night someone who said she was speaking on behalf of Arab, Iranian and Muslims in this area got on a loudspeaker and repeatedly told vigilers that if they really want peace they must do something meaningful for the people of the Middle East (Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and Lebanon).

    She told them their vigils mean nothing to the thousands of Lebanese who have become homeless in the Israeli attacks.

    She continued that Arab, Iranian and Muslims of Ann Arbor area ask you to help them in the campaign to end military aid to Israel. She invited people to join her group and ask the city of Ann Arbor and the U of M to sever all ties with companies that do business with Israel.

    Boycotts, sanctions and dis investment (divestment) are the only way to stop Israeli Killing Machine she said.

    She asked people to go to the City Council meeting on the 10 of August 2006 to speak for ending military aid to Israel. She demanded that peace loving people of Ann Arbor stand up and end massive US support for Israel. The racist state of Israel is now acting in absolute defiance of all that is moral and international laws.

    Israel is an outlaw state which has to be contained by the international community.

    Search the Google for the latest EU poll to see what Europeans think of Israel. The result should be out soon. For almost 4 years now Europeans agree that Israel posses a serious threat to world peace.

    Let us pull the plug on Israel. Let us cut the money off (over 3 billion a year from the US) before they commit mote atrocities and destabilize the world to the point of no return.

    Zionists OUT


       —Boycott Israel    Jul. 31 '06 - 09:30PM    #
  40. Jared Goldberg,

    Kick you ass we will. Kiss it?

    NOT in this lifetime.

    Boycott Israel


       —Boycott Israel    Jul. 31 '06 - 09:34PM    #
  41. [Sigh. Look, either participate in the conversation, or we're just going to have to start deleting posts completely....--ed.]

    Results after 19 days
       —Boycott Israel    Jul. 31 '06 - 09:37PM    #

  42. “WANT PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST? WORK FOR JUSTICE! Stop the US financial, diplomatic, and military support for Israel that fuels the violence

    “Here’s how:

    * Tell Congress to end all financial, diplomatic, and military aid to Israel

    Yes, and while you’re at it, tell your pals in Iran and Syria to stop all military aid to Hezbollah and Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc, from funneling money to help Palestinian “freedom fighters” including Hamas and Al-Aqsa “Martyr” Brigades from targeting civilians in Israel.

    * Don’t buy Israeli goods and tell businesses that sell Israeli goods to stop

    You won’t have any nice vegetables to put that great Palestinian olive oil on! Thank goodness that sane people do and will continue to buy Israeli goods. Thank you for bringing to everyone’s attention that Israel produces great goods and services. Your antisemitic rants have greatly increased the flow of dollars into Israel’s economy. Keep up your irrational hate-fueled propaganda tirades. Your picketing of Hiller’s in the past and of a synagogue yet, has steeled our reserve to give even more money to help Israel’s economy. Thank you! Oh, by the way, why don’t you call for people to stop buying Chinese goods and tell (that’s rich—you are going to TELL businesses what they should or shouldn’t do!—your ignorant arrogance has no limits—just like you’re trying to dictate how a whole congregation should think, and Heaven help them if they mostly don’t think like you because you are the sole “guardian of truth” on this planet..) businesses that sell Chinese goods to stop? China is not only brutally occupying a sovereign nation, i.e. Tibet, but viciously suppressing free thought and all its manifestations in its own huge territory. Only one tiny country, the one Jewish nation in the world and its existence preoccupies your cynical worldview. You are so obsessed with hating Israel, you obviously have no time for anything positive in your sad, pathetic, little life.

    * Support divestment from Israel

    As long as it’s met by equal divestment in the Palestinian Arab economic structure and all the regimes that support it and their allies, Hezbollah in Lebanon.

    * Make sure you don’t own Israeli bonds or stocks
    Make sure you get your protein and calcium. The blood seems to be draining from your brain.

    * Get your retirement fund, union, and state and local governments to divest from Israel

    Thank G-d they don’t follow your stupid, myopic advice because if they did, you would see people divest from those funds so quickly, it would make your silly, little head spin.

    * Educate yourself and then speak out against apartheid Israel and the racist ideology of Zionism

    and don’t forgot to inoculate yourself against the mindless, racist, antisemitic ideology of JWP&F and number one obsessed raving lunatic B. Coleman; Israelita Goldstein; $billions to Israel; Zionists Out; Lebanon, Palestine FIGHT BACK; and all of his pseudonyms and headline-type signatures.

    * Join a Palestinian solidarity group

    If you really wanted peace and justice in the Middle East, you would see the complexity of the situation, not the all-hate-Israel/all-the-time insanity spewed by a small-minded, see-the-world as everything is Israel’s fault/the Palestinians and their allies can never do anything wrong (unless it’s to not kill enough Israelis) ideology of Ann Arbor’s own one-issue obsessive Blaine Coleman and his crew.

    * Buy Palestinian olive oil

    It should go great with Israeli produce. Buy food from both, but boycotting everything Israel just isn’t going to happen. Wake up, Blaine, and smell the Israeli roses, because your logic stinks just like your blind, anti-Jewish, antisemitic, and rigid conception of the horribly complicated, bloody Middle East. One cannot have a rational discussion with a self-absorbed, rigid, fanatical, hate-mongering, fixated buffoon like you. Every other word out of your spewing orifice is “hate-destroy-boycott-divest from Israel” and “Palestine, Palestine, Palestine, Palestine.” Parking Garage Dude succinctly summed up many months ago what your romantic life must be like, except he was less tender in his graphic depiction. Except for the other small band in your brownshirts picketing the synagogue (I’m sure it doesn’t bother you that a woman was murdered and five others killed at a Jewish Federation office in Seattle because a madman shouting slogans eerily similar to yours decided he was “angry at Israel” nor that a synagogue in Sydney, Australia was just attacked http://www.smh.com.au/news/NATIONAL/Call-for-calm-after-synagogue-attack/2006/07/31/1154198037878.html almost certainly for the same reason, only two of hundreds of such hate-fed incidents) only such single-minded fanaticism is found amongst those gone soft in the reasoning part of the brain. Others, including those of us who are supporters of Israel on this blog, have already said that they abhor all civilian deaths and casualties, where you seem to think that the violence against deliberately targeted Jews and Israelis who are attacked, killed, and maimed are justifiable acts of the so-called horribly “oppressed” and “defenseless” masses you champion. If there was ever any reason or balance to your arguments, you might have a shred of credibility, but even supporters of the Palestinian cause know you’re a very loose cannon. You’re too obsessed to see what harm you do to the cause you say is dear to your heart. But then again, you’re doing so much to help Zionism, I should really applaud your efforts and thank you for your great touchdowns scored inside the goalposts of your hated opponents! Thanks, pal, and keep up the great work. The Mossad the CIA must be very proud of you!

    Just my two shekels’ worth.

    Oh, and Blaine “Israel threatens world peace” Coleman: no one has yet to prove, by the way, that Hezbollah was not firing rockets from the destroyed building in Kana, an area from which they have been launching such missiles for several weeks, that they did not deliberately prevent people from leaving that building after the IDF issued many warnings for civilians to get out of the area, nor why no one was evacuated from the destroyed building until camera crews arrived long hours later—I wonder how many more people died because of this senseless propaganda-point-gaining delay?—and why you haters of Israel at all costs always gloss over the fact that Hezbollah, Hamas, and other terrorist operatives do nothing but hide behind civilians. If they weren’t such cowardly butchers who have no love even for their own people’s lives, let alone for the “infidels,” they would take their munitions, their bombs, and their rockets away from the heavily populated centers. But they have such a love affair with “martyrdom” that they don’t have the slightest qualm about sacrificing thousands of their own including innocent children because their hatred of Israel and all Jews in particular is so much stronger than their love of life or reason, just like JWP&F love to manipulate all images and “facts” so as to appear that Israel is the only villain on the planet.

    I do not find the loss of civilian life in Lebanon a good thing, far from it, by the way, but just as Israel has been on the defensive since the founding of the state in 1948, it is not the Israelis on the whole who have wanted this constant state of war. It is not Israel that wants to destroy its neighbors to hold onto its truly tiny (Israel is the size of New Jersey) foothold in the Middle East. But, since BC and his aliases will never see this as anything but black-and-white, which reminds me of how G.W. Bush sees the world, BTW, it’s like spitting into the wind to try to actually have a reasonable, rational discussion with them like it is with Bush and his ardent supporters. Anyway, happily JWF&P will have no more effect on the outcome of this never-ending conflict (except to reinforce the opposition), any more than, as on the other hand, will, sadly, rational heads.

    Oh, and thank you Jared, for taking it to these self-righteous, they-and-only-they have TRUTH on their side (yeah, right!) storm troopers!


       —Mike    Jul. 31 '06 - 09:52PM    #
  43. BI:

    You’re an anonymous coward. Don’t make threats if you’re not going to use your name. Making online threats is a crime anyway.

    When I said kiss my ass, I meant the proposal to boycott Jewish businesses simply because they were Jewish. It seems eerily familiar, not to mention anti-semitic.

    Further, take Bruce Fields’ advice and either participate in discussion or don’t post. This isn’t your private forum.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 1 '06 - 01:03AM    #
  44. Two items: First to address those on this list that profess “two sides”. According to Jane’s information group:
    Israel has 2,950 tanks … Palestine has zero
    Israel has 231 F-16 fighter jets… Palestine zero
    Israel has 48 Apache helicopters and 39 Huey helicopters … Palestine has zero
    “Two sides” is like describing a football game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and Bach Elementary.

    Second, if those on this list are referring to our synagogue vigils when they describe ”... your fanatical loonies screaming at little girls on their way to worship”, they owe us an apology or at least a visit. If the vigils are not implicated, then it is I who will apologize.

    Israel is an apartheid, racist state that needs to be defunded, completely and now.


       —Henry Herskovitz    Aug. 1 '06 - 02:35AM    #
  45. Henry:

    “Israel is an apartheid, racist state that needs to be defunded, completely and now.” We’ve heard plenty of this from Blaine. I would love to debate you on a normal level on this topic, but when you flood the forum with hyperbolic statements like these, it’s hard to engage in honest discussions.

    These are your opinions, and everyone knows no one could ever convince you of another. I don’t intend to. I would like honest discussion, but, like I said, it’s hard when you make these declarations. What are people supposed to say? We know your chorus is supposed to agree, but what about those who don’t?

    This isn’t meant as a personal attack. Although I have always found the vigils to be morally reprehensible, I have no ill feelings towards you individually. I’m just saying I think the reason why people are apprehensive about engaging you is that they don’t perceive you or JWP as very open.

    I don’t fit the mold of any of the groups represented in Ann Arbor in terms of the Arab-Israeli conflict. So while I stand in opposition to you, I also stand in opposition to right-wing Zionist settler nutjobs who want to drag the Middle East into World War III.

    Please don’t personally attack me. I’m just trying to be honest.

    Zio-Censor (AKA Blaine):

    “You sure know how to close down any discussion of the Qana massacre.

    So does your newspaper.

    Your ‘Michigan Daily’ totally no-showed to the 2nd big divestment march to hit the U-M campus this summer.”

    Talk to news. That’s their department, not mine. Like I said before, don’t use me to take potshots at the Daily. If you have a problem with me, come out and say it. If you have a problem with the Daily, write a letter to the editor. It may very well get published. A word of caution: if you fill the letter with empty rhetoric like you do on these forums, it has less likely a chance of being published. But that’s common sense.

    Also remember, the paper is under a deadline. Since it is only a weekly paper, not everything could be covered, especially if it was on the weekend.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 1 '06 - 04:58AM    #
  46. Jared and others:

    As I’ve said before: I’m all for a good debate on this issue. But this is insane.

    Blaine’s platform doesn’t deserve one iota of your time, let alone to be viewed and discussed alongside other intelligent, responsible positions. Giving fanatics like Blaine a place in the debate – even on a small time local message board – lends credibility to his otherwise radical positions.

    Blaine and others like represent a small, but vocal minority – a minority that on this board has been allowed to dictate the terms of the debate, if one could even call this “debate.”

    Blaine isn’t interested in dialogue. Blaine doesn’t care what you think. Stop giving Blaine what he wants.


       —Daniel adams    Aug. 1 '06 - 12:50PM    #
  47. Your so-called “vigils” have nothing to do with the Israeli-Arab conflict and everything to do with targeting Jews as Jews going to worship and meditate on the Sabbath. The last group of people who “vigiled” by synagogues and Jewish businesses urging boycotts of Jewish organizations, shops, and institutions and dehumanized the people who used and depended on those establishments, wore brownshirts and shouted “Sig Heil.” HH & BC and their JWP&F crew’s picketing Jewish institutions and carrying huge, hate-filled signs is eerily reminiscent of what those brownshirts did 60 and 70 years ago. Some people never learn the lessons of history. But when self-professed Jews do this, it’s truly obscene. No wonder you are on the pathological fringes of society. Heaven help us if you do ever become the mainstream—which, thank G-d, you’re far from now—like the sickos in Nazi Germany who, whether you realize it or not—you’ll certainly never wake up to see that obvious truth—inspired you in your current offensive, disingenuous, arrogant, aggressive campaign.

    It is only one step further from the aggressive demonstrating—which only you, Henry Blaine, and Company, have the conceit to label as “respectful”—that pushes people even more deranged than you over the edge to attack synagogues, schools, and other Jewish institutions and the people therein as the recent shootings in Seattle, among too many other such incidents, demonstrate all too graphically. But, your lack of even thinking of condemning those and other violent actions against Jews whether in Washington State, Australia, France, or Israel demonstrates sharply how uneven, biased, and pathologically obsessed you are. You are blissfully untroubled by any violence against Jews and Israelis or any other group other than the one that your actions have done not a single thing to help. Sad to say, like too many in the group you profess to love, your craving to destroy Israel is far, far greater than your desire to find a peaceful, workable and rational solution to the problem or even for a stable Palestinian regime.

    If anyone even suggested picketing a mosque because some people think they fund barbarous terrorist violence, the screams of racism and the rush to come to their defense would be deafening. And, that’s the way it should be. It should be the same in Ann Arbor when any house of worship is so defiled on the holiest day of the week for its congregation’s members by meddling, self-righteous outsiders. The City Council had the great wisdom to pass a resolution condemning your vile actions, but too many of the non-Jewish community have been silent over your Nazi-like—yes, I’m sorry, but it’s all-too applicable in this case—activities.

    As Jared says, one cannot dialog with HH, BC, and JWP&F because they are firmly convinced that they and they alone have the monopoly on truth. Rather like the unelected “president” who thinks he has G-d’s voice in his ear telling him what to do and also like the fanatical extremists in some Moslem societies who spew hate like it was an endless, renewable resource, which sadly it is. I feel sorry for you all. You are so driven by hatred that you cannot see how truly multi-tiered and complicated the situation in the world really is. And, despite your blind thinking to the contrary, you are not doing a thing to make the situation better for anyone except your own super-sized egos.

    “The world is watching you murderers. And I assure you they will respond appropriately to your calls for ‘debate.’”

    Sorry, Daniel, (post # 68) you are so right, so after going against your and my better judgment, I submit this post, and by the remark I quote from post #69 just above, Blaine and the fringettes prove my and your and sane people’s point. Now, you and I are murderers for daring to contradict anything that Messrs. C & H say because only their_ view of the world is accurate. Well, Mr. “Think-You-Know-Everything-Better-Than-Thou,” you may be an obsessed, paranoid, psychopathic supporter of murderers, but no one has yet to call you an actual murderer. Talk about laying an obscene appellation on your perceived enemies. Of course, it’s to be expected from someone with your limited vision and inability to frame anything except along your very narrow hate-inspired viewpoint.

    And talk about trying to influence the Internet debate! It’s OK for self-righteous air bandits like Blaine to do so, but no one else should dare ever raise a voice to say, “wait a minute, maybe you’re out of your mind,” which, of course, most people will agree, you certainly are.

    Daniel is right, best to ignore you, rather than keep feeding your incredibly oversized ego. Of course ignoring the Nazis didn’t make them go away, but if we’re lucky, BC will never get their firepower. Anyway, unless the whole world turns into the new version of Nazi Germany, G-d forbid, you will never see your perverse dreams for the Middle East come to fruition.


       —Mike    Aug. 1 '06 - 01:51PM    #
  48. Way to go with the usual name-calling, genius, but your iunsults and your “dream” will never be realized. Thank G-d that Israel has the strength to fend off the attacks of all its enemies. And millions of those Arabs don’t give a damn about your Palestinians anymore than you relly do. They’re just one more pawn in your game of smear and try to eliminate the only Jewish state from the face of the earth. Your and their Nazi ancestors didn’t succeed—although they came so close—and their heirs, Moslem and Arab terrorist, racist, antisemitic murderers and their supporters like you, won’t succeed either. You’re the one eho is choking on the sand of myopic hatred that you’re whole body and what’s left of your mind is buried in.


       —Mike    Aug. 1 '06 - 02:46PM    #
  49. Since our friend likes to post articles verbatim, here’s a link without all the text pasted here:

    Civilian Casualties as Propaganda Warfare: http://jewschool.com/?p=11000

    Who are the ones who cynically, cowardly, and yes, diabolically hide behind civilians and indiscriminately throw them to the lions while they move around with their rockets and run and hide behind innocent babies, toddlers, children, the elderly, and other civilians as they launch their rockets toward Israel? Anyone whose eyes are open knows the truth. It’s the so-called “freedom fighters” known as Hezbollah and their ilk not Israel. And, by the way, multiple sides are offered on the site I cite, too. I’m sure that only those quotes that upheld the “intelligent discourse” of the JWP&F will be hurled back at us, however as we’re sure to be answered by another cut and paste job and/or mindless one-way slogans.


       —Mike    Aug. 1 '06 - 02:59PM    #
  50. Mike:

    If you agree with my earlier post, then just stop talking to him.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 1 '06 - 03:21PM    #
  51. “Look up 60 UN resolutions against Israel and its atrocities in the region.”

    And also all the ones violated by your friendly neighborhood Arab regimes who never ever commit any atrocities even against their own people according to you. The UN also mandated that Hezbollah be disarmed and dismantled. Since the UN can’t and won’t do the job any more or less than the feeble Lebanese army, Israel has to do it.

    Israel is always the one being violently provoked and not the other way around. More than once it has overreacted, but in the face of constant attacks against its civilian population, it’s either stand there and keep taking it or do something. What would you do if your house was regularly attacked from across the Detroit River? Surrender or fight? Tell the (hypothetical) terrorists in Canada that you’re a racist and that they’re right to bomb your house and try to wipe you out?

    The plain fact of the matter is and always has been that no one likes a Jew who fights back; they want Jews who are cowering and herded like cattle shipped off to their deaths.

    And, if we need to be “healed” by the likes of you with your arrogant, patronizing comments about what does and what doesn’t constitute humanity, we’re in deep trouble. What you suggest is not healing, it’s called brainwashing.

    Don’t keep using your BS vapid, completely fictitious “Apartheid,” “racist” Israel line, because it holds about as much water as a sieve. Until you admit that the real fundamental problem is that the despotic Moslem and Arab states and quasi-states in the region don’t want and never will tolerate a democratic Jewish state in their midst and that destruction of Israel is more important to them and you than peace in the region or even your vaunted Palestinian state, you will never see the whole picture, just your simplistic one-dimensional one.

    And we know that Israel is made up of human beings who make plenty of errors and don’t always smell like roses, but you smell like the other stuff yourself when you paint a totally monochromatic portrait of Israel because short of total surrender to those “un-smelly,” “helpless” and “oppressed” “guardians of freedom” and completely “non-racist,” “Jew-loving” murderers, not a single one of whose actions you ever condemn, there’s nothing Israel could ever do that you would find agreeable to your sensibilities, just like there’s nothing your beloved racist Nazi heirs do against Jews and even other Arabs and Moslems and anyone else could ever muss your hair. If that isn’t a pile of smelly cow manure I don’t know what is.

    I will do my best to not waste any more cyberspace on your pathetic whining, whinging, and antisemitic race-baiting twaddle. Back to work. You may have all day and all night to sling BS; I’ve had enough of trying to have an intelligent discussion with you, just as has virtually everyone rational in A2. I will now take your advice, Daniel. So, the JWP&Fers will probably get the last word, but it won’t be the last intelligent, reasoned one. So, enjoy your pathetic, little-brained obsession. We know it’s really all you have.


       —Mike    Aug. 1 '06 - 04:13PM    #
  52. Yes, poor Qana, and poor Palestinians and Arabs who have you as their supporter. There I said it. I doubt—I can say this with virtually 100% certainty—that you’ll ever entertain even half a nano-thought about any of the innocent Israelis killed by your precious “freedom fighters.” The loss of all innocent life is tragic and that includes Israeli lives as well as Arab lives. Well, I broke my own vow pretty quickly, but whenever Blaine or one of his pseudonyms or clones weighs in, that last word will, as I said, always issue forth from a single dimension from the Twilight Zone of the JWP world of hate Israel and only Israel all-the-time and praise Arab terrorists and only Arab terrorists all-the-time.

    Your own brain haunts you.


       —Mike    Aug. 1 '06 - 04:36PM    #
  53. Thanks for always trying to do my thinking for me. It’s too bad you don’t do any thinking for yourself. Israel certainly shares the blame, but they share it with the provocative murderers of Hezbollah who will always hide and shoot from among the weakest and most unable to defend themselves even in Christian villages where they certainly are not wanted nor welcome. They know that this way no matter what happens they will win a precious PR victory no matter how many lives both Israeli and Arab such a pyrrhic “victory” costs.


       —Mike    Aug. 1 '06 - 04:58PM    #
  54. As noted earlier and again at the signature link at the bottom of this note, Israel does indeed use Palestinians for human shields. If Hezbollah even does, more fool them, for obviously Israel has shown that it cares nothing about murdering civilians. Why then would Hezbollah endanger Lebanese civilians by using human shields.

    “Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.”

    — Mark Twain
    The Mysterious Stranger
    1916


       —Yes, Israel uses human shields    Aug. 2 '06 - 06:46AM    #
  55. “Why then would Hezbollah endanger Lebanese civilians by using human shields.”

    Because Hezbollah has utter disregard for the lives of civilians, whether Jew or Muslim, Israeli or Palestinian.


       —PoV    Aug. 2 '06 - 11:46AM    #
  56. OK, it’s time to let the cat out of the bag….Blaine and Henry are actually schills for the Israeli government, sent to AA to look so ferociously retarded that anyone who sees them or hears their arguments automatically become Israel supporters.

    There’s no other way to explain it….other than….they’re both remarkably, remarkably stupid.


       —Meva    Aug. 2 '06 - 11:52AM    #
  57. Just so it’s clear, you’re no longer just an anti-Zionist – you’re now an anti-Semite and a bigot. Congratulations!

    If we’re talking about laws and rules here, why don’t we refer to Darwin’s law? In that case, I am happy you won’t be reproducing. phew.


       —Meva    Aug. 2 '06 - 12:13PM    #
  58. Meva + POV: Stop talking to him.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 2 '06 - 01:10PM    #
  59. The truth is that despite the fact that Zionist controlled media reports just 13% of Palestinian children’s’ massacre and 88% of Israeli children’s deaths, the numbers tell a horrifying tale; for 121 Israeli children reportedly killed by Palestinians, close to 800 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis.

    The truth is that while zero Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians, 25000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel and while two Israelis are being held prisoners by the Palestinians, 9,599 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.

    The truth is that the great benefactor of Israel, the United States of America, gives more than $15 million per day to the Israeli government and military while the Palestinian NGOs get a miserly $232,290 per day to care for the victims of Israeli aggression.

    The truth is that while Israel reportedly possesses upward of 400 WMDs, the Palestinian have none and while there are 65 UN resolutions against Israel, there are none against Palestinians

    The truth is that while Israel bemoans that four rockets that fell on its territory were made in Iran, it has received upward of 17 billion dollars of arms from the United States alone over the last 10 years.

    The truth is that virtually every bullet and every shrapnel that ricochets through the Palestinian’s flesh and blood is linked to the United States of America one way or the other.


       —Boycott Israel    Aug. 2 '06 - 03:10PM    #
  60. Shameless beasts (ICPJ).

    Do you think people of conscience do not see how you are supporting genocide by supporting Israeli war? Shame on you racists!

    The world is watching you and you are more than ever exposed for the warmonger beasts that you are. Blood of thousands of your victims will not be in vain.

    The truth is that you will pay for your atrocities and you will be sent to hell where you deserve to be.

    Shameful killers of all centuries!


       —ICPJ / Israel terrorize people    Aug. 2 '06 - 03:25PM    #
  61. OK, we got the 10th verbatim cut-and-paste from urukinfo.net; I’ve asked for that to stop the previous 9 times, so at this point I assume whoever’s doing it just isn’t even reading the comments. So I’m just giving up and deleting any comments that consist entirely of cut-and-pastes from other articles.

    This is not meant to discourage pointing out relevant articles: just do it by including a link or just the URL, and adding your own commentary and any relevant quotes from the article, instead of just quoting the entire article with no attribution or comments of your own. We welcome your commentary.


       —Bruce Fields    Aug. 2 '06 - 04:05PM    #
  62. The story of a child spending the night at a morgue amongst the dead, and the murder of his sister, and his terrorized and brutalized family by Israel killing machine does not need my comments.

    It is there for the Zionists on this site to see and know that their damage to the whole region will NEVER be forgiven.

    Zaynab is dead but hundreds of people will avenge her. Israel is the terrorist state.

    Israel is a bloodthirsty state, which will never have a day of rest as long as justice is ignored in the Middle East.

    You blood thirsty beasts will never get our homeland or be allowed to destroy it further. We will fight you to the last drop of our blood and you shall be no more.

    You should have learned form Vietnam and Iraq; your military might is not enough to brake a people who knows the truth is on her side.

    You bluchers have not seen the last of it yet.

    This world is not yours to destroy as you use up all its resources and deplete its inhabitants.

    Shameful beasts; you messengers of death and destruction everywhere!

    Humanity shall survive you as it always has and you Nazis like bluchers will end up in hell, where you deserve to be.


       —Terror of Israel    Aug. 2 '06 - 04:35PM    #
  63. It was an unseemly end for 80- year-old Manaheel Jabr, flung over a bloodstained walll, grey hair falling around her shrunken black face, a collapsed ceiling pinning her down at the waist.

    “It’s the grandmother,” one of the onlookers gasped when the civil defense bulldozer finally pierced a hole in the rubble of what was until two weeks ago a three-storey house.

    Mrs Jabr’s corpse presented a terrible dilemma to the Lebanese Red Cross yesterday. Should they cut her in two, put the pieces in a body bag and take her to the hospital morgue, or leave her behind, in the hope that more powerful equipment could lift the concrete slab from her back and would reach her before the dogs did?

    Israel is a terrorist state!


       —Terror of Israel    Aug. 2 '06 - 04:52PM    #
  64. Stop. Just stop. Please. You aren’t winning converts. You aren’t helping your cause.

    The situation is sad. It’s terribly sad. The entire state of the Middle East is lamentable and distressing. Nobody enjoys killing or death or war. Nobody.

    Israel isn’t genocidal. And to use that term cheapens the word and cheapens your argument. Holocaust? Please.

    Your inflammatory rhetoric gets you nowhere. Your screaming at children going to Israel Independence Day at the JCC gets you nowhere.

    Reasoned discussion and acceptance of the fact that there are many sides to the current situation in the Middle East will open up dialogue.

    But your constant hollering about “holocaust”, “genocide”, etc? It’s getting you nowhere.

    Please stop. You’re becoming a parody of yourself and it’s destructive to the ends you hope to achieve—ends that many probably agree with.


       —Young OWSider    Aug. 3 '06 - 01:33AM    #
  65. You still have not made your point of why we should boycott Israel specifically and not call for a boycott on Islamic countries that support terror and discrimination against minorities.

    I am not just talking about terror in Israel. I am talking about terror in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia and in the Far East in places like Bali. These attacks are the work of Muslim extremists primarily funded by places like Iran.

    The Islamic clerics proclaim “we won’t stop until Islam is spread from Spain to Iraq”. Iran is a big proponent of such ideology. I don’t want to be Muslim yet it’s being pushed on me by radical Islamists just like you say Israel is pushing its way onto peoples in the Middle East.

    I call for a boycott of racist Iran.

    I say thank God for countries like Israel who are willing to fight this horrible threat of worldwide Islamic domination. Unless of course you would like to see women dressed from head to toe and not able to drive spread around the entire world and not just in Saudi Arabia.

    This boycott Israel/Israel is like Nazis BS is just that…. BS. Your just a group of very angry, self-hating Jews who have nothing better to do then pick on a small little Jewish community. You and your group are pathetic.

    I don’t get as angry as you because I know Israel is doing the right thing (despite the horrible civilian casualties which is totally the fault of Hezbola) and as always will come out victorious and then all of the Islamic slime they’ve uncovered will crawl back under their filthy rocks.

    I feel so badly for the decent Muslims in the world. Their religion is being dragged through the mud by these horrible extremist thugs.


       —Racist Iran    Aug. 3 '06 - 02:41AM    #
  66. Stop talking to him.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 3 '06 - 02:42AM    #
  67. Hezbola is a terrorist org. with it’s only goal being the complete destruction and annihilation of Israel.

    It’s not as if there is much to negotiate with or that Hezbola is saying, well, if you give us some land to play on, we’ll leave you alone. They want Israel gone and they make it no secret. Any country with an enemy like that would attack. It does not matter if you agree or don’t agree. It’s just a fact.

    As the world knows, one of the tactics of these Islamic terror groups is to use the most defenseless people as human shields because of their extreme cowardice.

    These Islamic terror and death machines also bet on the fact civilized countries (like Israel and the West) who value human life will not dare attack an area where there are civilians.

    If someone uses a house to fire a missile at a city, that house and its inhabitants become combatants. That house needs to be destroyed. There is no other choice.

    The Israelis do more than most when it comes to warning civilians prior to strikes. They drop leaflets asking people to go north away from what is happening. No other country does this. I don’t remember Israelis getting the same treatment prior to an attack in their cities which was specifically targeted at killing civilians and had nothing to do with anything remotely strategic.

    Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Hezbola don’t drop leaflets warning Israelis that they are going to perpetrate an attack designed only to murder innocents.

    Israeli civilians are humans as well. You cannot say one group deserves to live and the other die because of an accident of birth.

    If you look at exactly what has been bombed in the past few weeks, you will see it’s a limited area of the southern suburbs of Beirut and certain cities near the border with Israel.

    Yes, these places are packed with people. But also packed with missile launchers pointed directly at Israel.

    The majority of the city of Beirut is completely untouched.

    The Israelis sure could have done far worse, proving they are going after ONLY certain targets. Hezbola is so cowardly that they hide behind little babies to get their work done.

    I am against a cease fire because that would be placing a band-aid on something that needs a body cast. Hezbola wants Israel destroyed. A cease fire now will just give them time to rearm and this whole thing will happen again within a year’s time.

    A few days ago, one of these Muslim clerics said that they will not stop until Islam is spread from Spain to Iran. I don’t think we should wait for them to spread their own version of the thousand year Reich throughout Europe and the West because then we are next.

    When the US and Great Britain launched massive bombing campaigns over Berlin and fire bombings over Dresden during World War ll, thousands of innocent, probably Apolitical German citizens were killed and wounded. Was there an alternative there? Should we have allowed Hitler to spread his evil?

    This fantasy you have about Israel being genocidal is nothing short of maniacal. It’s a complete fallacy concocted by left-wing extremists who in order to get people on their side need to lie and distort basic history. I challenge anyone to really look into the history of the Middle East, Zionism, the Arab/Israeli conflict and learn as opposed to listening to what the JWPF anti-Semitic racists have to say.


       —Hezbola, the 21st Century Nazis    Aug. 3 '06 - 02:59AM    #
  68. Good point, Daniel. You’re right. It’s just difficult not to answer these horribly distorted facts. But, you are 100% right. I will try. Thanks.


       —Hezbola, the 21st Century Nazis    Aug. 3 '06 - 03:01AM    #
  69. Okay, here’s a word about Qana. Qana rhymes with Rana with also rhymes with Mana. Okay, I commented on Qana.

    Just so you know, it’s very amusing to get you so angry. Everyone is laughing at you.

    I had a couple of my Arab budies take a look at your posts and even they think your a nut case.

    Keep up your amusing posts. It’s a good read after a long day. Thanks, man.


       —Hezbola, the 21st Century Nazis    Aug. 3 '06 - 03:55AM    #
  70. Special Service at Beth Israel:
    http://www.bethisrael-aa.org/

    “Friday 6:00PM
    [Sanctuary] We invite you to join us for a special Kabbalat Shabbat service on Friday evening, August 4 at 6 p.m. to join together in prayer, song and hope for the people of Israel and the entire Middle East.”

    Once again, Beth Israel makes no bones about its nationalist support for the Jewish Supremacist State. The lead photo on the website is the perfect conflation of church and state.

    Check it out; See you there.


       —Henry Herskovitz    Aug. 3 '06 - 04:13AM    #
  71. Your cause has nothing to do with that of the Palestinians, cruelly and viciously oppressed by Arab states for decades.

    Like the Arab states neighboring Israel, you wield the Palestinian cause merely as a cudgel against the Jews.

    Read the Beth Israel invitation you quoted: the very words proves Beth Israel has deep concern for all the people of the Middle East.

    Your hatred for Jews blinds you.


       —PoV    Aug. 3 '06 - 12:28PM    #
  72. Dear Henry & Blaine,

    I’m very sorry this bothers you so much since it doesn’t say let’s pray for the destruction of Israel-

    it says “join together in prayer, song and hope for the people of Israel and THE ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST”

    Thanks for you help w/the fundraising efforts. You know every time you picket the synagogue, extra money is donated for Zionist causes.
    You are helping raise money for Zionism. You should be proud of yourselves!


       —JWP is a Zionist Fundraising Tools    Aug. 3 '06 - 12:38PM    #
  73. Dear Blaine & Henry,
    Thanks for helping us raise money!
    Love,
    Israel


       —JWP is a Zionist Fundraising Tool    Aug. 3 '06 - 01:04PM    #
  74. Not that I expect you to care Henry, but…

    “We’re making noise, and noise defeats silence.”

    Yes. You’re making noise. Congratulations. A 5 year old farting in a crowded theater makes noise. What’s next? Taking a dump in Beth Israel draped in the Palestinian flag? Another suggestion: Make a Israeli-flag colored sheet cake, stuff it it your mouth all at once, then retch it up at passing Jews. Why don’t you do that?

    You may think that the opposition that you’ve met with – on the city council and among Ann Arbor residents – is the product of Jewish influence, cowardice or the combination of the two. Could it be that people oppose your methods because they think your methods are inappropriate? Because your methods are inappropriate? Occams Razor: The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

    “That shows how local power works in Ann Arbor. It’s pressure. It’s persuasion. It’s Tony Soprano. This is how gangsters operate. The Zionists write a nice letter to city council, and voilà, fifty days later a resolution comes out condemning us.”

    Alternatively, you might be tempted to think that your tactics – inappropriate, to say the least – are justified by the tactics employed by the state of Israel.

    Well, I find it outrageous that you demand respect for the Palestinians, but deny it to your neighbors. I find it outrageous that you’ve written off those who disagree with your methods as “zionists.”

    I’m not a Zionist, nor am I a coward, but I know that harassing people on their way to worship is wrong. I expect those sympathetic to Palestinian causes to be angry, but I expect them to be respectful as well.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 3 '06 - 01:18PM    #
  75. Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or lease land in Israel?

    Did you now that cars owned by Palestinians are colour coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?

    Did you know Palestinians are not allowed to move from one city, say Gaza to Bethleham, to another without first getting a ‘visa’ from Israel?

    Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories?

    For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 Jewish settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron’s 120,000 Palestinians?

    Did you know that Israel routinely confiscates Palestinian bank accounts, businesses and land and refuses to pay compensation to those who suffer confiscation?

    Did you know that since 1967, (and of course not counting the atrocities committed since March 2002) over 600,000 Palestinians have been jailed in Israeli jails and over 200 have died while in Israeli jails? During the first year of the second intifada alone, Israel arrested over 1900 Palestinians, of which 600 were children under 16.

    Did you know that Israel uses torture routinely in jails (only against non-Jews of course) despite the Israeli High Court outlawing it?


       —Zionism is Racism    Aug. 3 '06 - 03:11PM    #
  76. Blaine, will sandwich boards still be in style in a couple more years when you’re 80?


       —Meva    Aug. 3 '06 - 03:26PM    #
  77. “Harassing people on their way to worship is wrong?”

    How about bombing people in their sleep? How about burning children in their nightgowns?

    Is that enough harassment for you?

    Have you stood up and screamed at the top of your lungs “STOP THE GENOCIDE OF THE INOCENT PEOPLE BY ISRAEL?” Have you?

    How about destroying a nations cost lines to a point of no return with filthy oil? How about massacring a town and killing people who have taken refuge in a house huddled together to escape Israeli bombs?

    Is that enough of a harassment for you?

    Have you stood up and screamed at the top of your lungs “STOP THE GENOCIDE OF THE INOCENT PEOPLE BY ISRAEL?” Have you?

    How about attacking people at Mosques and killing them while they pray?

    Is that enough harassment for you?

    Have you stood up and screamed at the top of your lungs “STOP THE GENOCIDE OF THE INOCENT PEOPLE BY ISRAEL?” Have you?

    I know you have not because I keep up with these things “buddy”.

    You are as big a racist as the rest of them you just like us to be polite about getting killed and not make so much noise and die nicely without making you look bad.

    Well you look like death to me and to millions in the Arab and Islamic world. You are death and destruction personified.

    As long as the double standard of racist America exists, you cannot claim to hold high moral grounds. You are racist, even if you are not a Zionist. You have clear evidence that Israel is committing crimes against humanity and the environment but you refuse to hold the butchers responsible for anything.

    Enough is enough. We are fed up with you racist butchers.

    Stop Israel, before it pushes the WROLD into a major disaster of an unprecedented proportion.


       —Stop Israel    Aug. 3 '06 - 03:33PM    #
  78. Israel has no moral standing in the world any more.

    Nehemia Shtrasler a columnist for the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz confesses:

    …the current situation, with its accompanying feeling of failure, the dead and the wounded, the attack on Israel’s moral standing, the hatred towards it throughout the world and the damage to Israel’s military deterrence.

    Israel has not managed to crush Hezbollah and, it has strengthened Hezbollah’s standing in Lebanon and the Arab world, which are seeing how a tiny guerrilla organization has succeeded in standing up to the mighty Israel defense forces and causing Israel serious losses among its civilian population. That is a dangerous precedent.

    The Olmert-Peretz plan was to shell and demolish south Lebanon and south Beirut until the Lebanese public demand that its government vomit Hezbollah out from its midst.

    It appears that, like a number of other Israeli leaders, they did not understand how much killing; poverty and distress people are willing to take, as long as their honor is not harmed, as long as they are not humiliated.

    And indeed, instead of demanding that Hezbollah be dismantled, the people of Lebanon want revenge, and they want it now. That is their response to the killing of 900 civilians and the destruction of thousands of homes, bridges, roads, villages and towns, setting Lebanon back by 20 years.


       —Stop Israel    Aug. 3 '06 - 04:09PM    #
  79. Meva:

    I’ve asked other posters to stop responding to Blaine. I’d ask you to do the same.

    I think discussing what’s going on in this part of the world is important, and that won’t happen on this site so long as Blaine (or “Stop Israel.” whatever) manages to distract people from the subject.

    Ignoring him won’t fix his damaged mind, but it will discourage from polluting this site with crap. He posts it because he believes that people will read it. Don’t give him the pleasure.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 3 '06 - 04:23PM    #
  80. First and far most, I repeat, many people on this list advocate human rights and respect for the environment. I am one of those people and I am certainly not B——-.

    As for you (Daniel) disliking what I talk about, I can understand that because you and Zionists like you like to do your dirty work in silence. You want to kill in “peace”. And I am making it hard for you to continue your genocidal behavior in silence.

    You are worried about pollution, read about Israeli attacks and pollution of the Lebanese waters and soil with oil and depleted uranium.

    You don’t want to respond to that? Don’t. But people are not stupid. The news is out and we will keep talking about it. We hold all Zionists and the state if Israel responsible for crimes against humanity and the environment.

    We will yell at the top of our lungs STOP ISRAELI TERROR BEFOR IT DRAGS THE WORLD INTO A WORLD WAR THAT WOULD MAKE THE WORLD UNINHABITABLE EVEN FOR JEWS.

    STOP ISRAEL WHILE WE STILL HAVE TIME. YOU ARE NOT DOING ANYONE, INCLUDING ISRESLIES, ANY FAVOR BY WATCHING A RACIST GOVERNMENT DESTROY PEOPLE AND THE EARTH.

    DO NOT PUSH YOUR LUCK ANY FURTHER. THINGS WILL GIVE AND THE OUTCOME WILL BE EVEN MORE UGLY THAN WHAT WE ALL SEE RIGHT NOW.

    STOP ISRAEL BEFOR IT IS TOO LATE FOR ALL OF US.


       —Israel pollutes    Aug. 3 '06 - 04:50PM    #
  81. I’m wondering, Dan, Meva, PoV, and others:

    Could we carry on a discussion ourselves on this forum while at the same time ignoring Blaine and this other guy who writes like Blaine?

    Just curious . . .


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 3 '06 - 05:48PM    #
  82. “Could we carry on a discussion ourselves on this forum while at the same time ignoring Blaine and this other guy who writes like Blaine?”

    I think so. We can even have a conversation ABOUT Blaine and his (and others) effect on the Ann Arbor debate.

    But talking with the boy (and his aliases) is unproductive at best.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 3 '06 - 06:13PM    #
  83. —-that the invasion and destruction of Lebanon as part of the strategy for a US transformation of the Middle East is a failure, for not only has it failed to trigger some kind of Lebanese rejection of Hizballah, it has also opened up the possibility of a wider, regional opposition to US plans and even more importantly, revealed the vulnerabilities of the US client states in the region who now fear that the adventurist policies of the US/Israel threaten their own power.

    And, the longer the destruction continues, the greater the anger of the mass of Arab peoples’ who can see quite clearly that Israel is no more than a local imperialist gendarme for the US.

    Moreover, the lie of Israel as ‘victim’ has been destroyed completely, an achievement that Israel inflicted on itself. No wonder the media mavens are trying to figure out a way of turning a defeat into a victory.

    By overreaching itself, the US, via its proxy Israel, has moreover, forced those who claim to to be on the left of the Labour government, to stand up and be counted (though it remains to be seen just what the numbers add up to). Blair’s PR offensive which he undertook at a very safe distance from these shores, is testament to just how damaging the invasion of Lebanon has been, not only to the Blair government but to the ‘war on terror’.

    Israel: Blackmailing the world by William Bowles


       —William Bowles    Aug. 3 '06 - 06:39PM    #
  84. When are you going to return your house and land to the Native Americans you brutally stole it from after torturing, maiming, bombing, and murdering them and polluting their soil and water and exterminating their buffalo and start yelling at the top of your lungs (you have an obvious talent for that) “STOP THE GENOCIDE OF THE INOCENT PEOPLE BY AMERICANS IN AMERICA” and move to the West Bank and/or Gaza and/or Southern Lebanon permanently so you can take your fight to where you might be able to have some influence? Wait, I take that back: you do have a lot of influence here in Ann Arbor…let’s see…in the loony bin…(although almost every one there is a whole lot saner than you can ever hope for…)


       —Not a ًWord for the Genocide of America’s First Nations    Aug. 3 '06 - 06:53PM    #
  85. Hail to Blaine and Henry and JWPF, Zionist Heroes!

    You are truly great! You are making so many more friends for Israel that you really should get the People of the Year Award from the Zionist Organization of America. No one around here does as much as you do to help the Israeli cause, NO ONE. We Zionist, Racist, Apartheid Nazi Pig Murderers are so proud of you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! And bless you, Blaine and Henry, for doing the very good work of the Zionists here in Ann Arbor! Thank you again and again!

    We Laud the Superlative Achievements of Secret Zionist Agents Blaine Coleman and Henry Herskovitz and Supporters! They Are Our Best Men on the Ground in Michigan!


       —Jewish Witnesses for Zionist Peace    Aug. 3 '06 - 07:06PM    #
  86. Personal insults are not going to save you from all the questions that are being raised here? You cannot badmouth your way out of the posted analysis of the Israeli aggression.

    All that has been posted here demands your unbiased careful attention. That is, if you see all human lives sacred and valuable. People are raising valid questions and you badmouth them instead. By doing this, you are only ruining your credibility.

    Just for the record, I do feel that the land that was taken, by force, from the native people of this land has to be returned to them. Or at the very least, native people of America have to meaningfully compensated for their loss.

    But right now we are talking about US and Israeli ambitions to restructure the Middle East and what all that means to the rest of the world. We are talking about our responsibilities as people of conscience at a critical time like his.

    Lebanese people need immediate international support. Israel has to leave immediately and they have to compensate Lebanon for all the destruction they have caused.

    I invite your comments.


       —People of conscience    Aug. 3 '06 - 07:17PM    #
  87. Blaine,
    Try this recipe.

    Lebanon Bologna

    2 level teaspoons Prague Powder #2
    4 ounces corn syrup solids
    1 ounce powdered dextrose
    6 ounces Fermento
    1 tablespoon ground white pepper
    1 tablespoon ground nutmeg (yummy!)
    1 tablespoon paprika
    1 tablespoon onion powder

    First grind the drained meat (10 lbs) with a 3/16” plate, Mix with
    all the seasonings. Stuff into wide casings and ferment as follows:

    16 hours at 90 degrees, 90% humidity
    28 hours at 105 degrees, 85% humidity
    6 hours at 110 degrees, 85% humidity

    Then raise the smokehouse temperature to 150 F and cook until the
    internal temperature is 137. Let it cool at room temperature until
    it reaches 110 and let it age 4-5 days before delightfully consuming
    it.

    http://www.recipecottage.com/preserving-meats/lebanon-bologna.html


       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 3 '06 - 07:19PM    #
  88. —-Moreover, the lie of Israel as ‘victim’ has been destroyed completely, an achievement that Israel inflicted on itself.—-

    Anyone wants to comment on how this will affect the media reporting of Israel in America?

    I think this is probably true. As Israel continues to stay in Lebanon and inflict damage on that country, the aggressive nature of the Israeli state becomes more fully evident.

    I was in a coffee shop yesterday and overheard people talk about it. A woman (seemed to be an attorney) with a friend in Israel, said, how can you do all this for a soldier? Is there no other way to retrieve a soldier? Is this kind of aggression justifiable?

    Well, many people’s answer to this question is, no, it is not justifiable and Israel is seriously angering Arabs in the Middle East and elsewhere, as it continues to bomb Lebanon.

    The longer Israel continues to destroy Lebanon, the more distant it takes from its favorite public image as “victim”, and the closer it gets to its new public image as a victimizer.

    What do you think?


       —People of conscience    Aug. 3 '06 - 07:49PM    #
  89. Another recipe:

    Weaver’s Lebanon Bologna Dip

    * 2 – 8 oz. packages of cream cheese (room temp) * 1/2 lb. chunk of Weaver’s lebanon bologna (very cold) * 2 Tablespoons Long’s Horseradish (drained) * 1/4 tsp. black pepper * 1/2 tsp. of lemon juice

    Stir Long’s Horseradish into cream cheese. Add black pepper and lemon. Shred very cold bologna as if you are shredding cheese. Stir bologna into cream cheese mixture. Chill to spread on crackers or serve at room temp. This is especially good on triscuits. It may also be spread thickly on triscuits (when chilled) and VERY briefly broiled to brown the tops! When I do this, I sprinkle a very small amount of parmesan on the tops to help it brown before it melts off the cracker.

    http://www.weaversbologna.com


       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 3 '06 - 08:00PM    #
  90. LEBANON COUNTY PEACH CAKE

    1/4 c. shortening
    1 egg
    2 tbsp. sugar
    2 c. flour
    3 tsp. baking powder
    1/2 tsp. salt
    1/4 tsp. cinnamon
    1 c. milk
    Fresh peaches

    Sift and mix together the dry ingredients (with the exception of the cinnamon), cut in the shortening and add the egg and milk which have been mixed together. Mix thoroughly. Pour into a well greased oblong pan and cover with peeled peach halves. Sprinkle with sugar and cinnamon and bake in a moderate oven (350 degrees) about 35 minutes.
    http://www.cooks.com


       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 3 '06 - 08:23PM    #
  91. No, it’s YOU we find humorous AND pathetic.


       —Brain Dead    Aug. 3 '06 - 08:23PM    #
  92. Lebanon Prepares For New Year’s Meat Drop

    LEBANON, Pa.—Preparations for Lebanon’s New Year’s Eve celebration are under way.
    The Kutztown Bologna Co. has finished making this year’s Lebanon bologna.

    The oversized bologna will be dropped at Ninth and Cumberland streets at midnight.

    “This bologna’s about six feet long. It weighs just short of 100 pounds. It started out as an interesting, exciting thing to do and we’ve done it now for a number of years and we hope to continue to do it for as long as the city wants to do it,” said Jerry Landuyt, with Kutztown Bologna Co.

    Related Stories:

    * Cleona To Drop Giant Pretzel

    * Harrisburg To Drop A Cow
    http://www.wgal.com/holidays/2711857/detail.html


       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 3 '06 - 08:50PM    #
  93. Dan (and whoever else wishes to have intelligent discussions):

    I would prefer NOT to talk about Blaine and his patsies. It gives him unnecessary attention and doesn’t get us anywhere. Talking about him is the online equivalent of playground gossip. And it gets us nowhere.

    So, for those who wish to participate with me (I’ll get it started, I guess . . . ) we’ll have a discussion on this forum about Lebanon, Israel, and the whole conflict. Obviously it won’t be as broad as that, so let’s start with the topic of this thread: a ceasefire (the vigil was for peace and a ceasefire).

    I, for one, am most definitely for a negotiated ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah. Many people believe that Israel should smash Hezbollah until they’re gone. I, however, believe that to be inevitably impossible. The longer Israel stays in Lebanon, the more heroic Hezbollah will be made out to be.

    As I wrote in my column for this week, I agree with Thomas Friedman’s idea, to an extent: place a multinational force, not UNIFIL, in southern Lebanon. Have a force of several countries, none of which is Israel (Russia, China, Canada, US, France or whoever), ensure Hezbollah is not firing into Israel and to make sure they disband or demilitarize.

    Calls for Israel to continue bombing like hell are just as foolish as are calls that Hezbollah should keep fighting Israel. A ceasefire is the best way out of the conflict.

    Blaine et. al: you can respond, if you wish. I can almost guarantee you I will not answer back.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 3 '06 - 08:54PM    #
  94. Jared,
    first and foremost, thanks for calling a “cease fire” on this blog! I’ve been reading this site for weeks now and I’ve been wanting to comment on the current situation in the Middle-east, but I found the current some of the posters on this forum to be a bit out there. I just read your editorial on the Mich Daily and I want to commend you on a thoughtful and balanced article.

    Ann Arbor-


       —annarbor1us    Aug. 3 '06 - 09:12PM    #
  95. “ensure Hezbollah is not firing into Israel and to make sure they disband or demilitarize”:

    Are you joking? How are you going to pull this off?

    The world has witnessed Israeli aggression to the most barbaric proportions. Now you want Hezbollah to disarm?

    May be we should apply the same logic to Israel. I say if Israel disarms, I would be for disarmament of Iran, Syria, Lebanon and all other countries in the region.

    Israeli aggression is the reason Hezbollah organized itself in the first place.

    The cat is out of the bag.

    You know that Israeli is incapable of fighting resistance in Lebanon. So, you want a ceasefire.

    How about holding Israel responsible for all the damages it has inflicted upon Lebanon and Palestine.

    How about compensations and clean up of the environment they have destroyed?

    How about it Jared?


       —Boycott Israel    Aug. 3 '06 - 09:18PM    #
  96. …Hezbollah has shown the world that Israel, even with its endless supply of U.S. high-tech weapons, is no longer invincible. But this hated proxy for U.S. imperialism is very dangerous. It has called up thousands of additional troops and is intensifying its offensive using U.S.-supplied tanks, planes, armored earth-movers and bunker-buster bombs….

    …It is important to understand that this is the way Israel has fought every war. It has invaded Lebanon five times in the past 30 years. It has also invaded Jordan, Egypt and Syria and bombed Iraq—all with full U.S. diplomatic, political and military support…

    Comment on this Jared, or will you promptly ignore it? Like you ignore what you don’t like to be reminded of.

    Ceasefire yes, but Israel has to be held accountable for its crimes (one million refugees, 900 civilian dead only in Lebanon and hundreds dead in Palestine).

    Or, shall we just let them do this again in a few more months or days or just let them kill everyone while they are at it right now?

    What do you say Jared? Your “balanced” mind should shed some “wise light” on this “complicated” matter.


       —Boycott Israel    Aug. 3 '06 - 09:36PM    #
  97. As Israeli bombs and missile rain down on Lebanon, and reports of cluster bombs and white phosphorus use seem certain, one wonders if US munition favorite – depleted uranium – is also being used.

    After searching for a while, it seems clear that Israel is using depleted uranium munitions. Amnesty International reports that the US shipped two planeloads of “GBU 28 laser-guided bombs containing depleted uranium (DU) warheads and destined for the Israeli air force landed at Prestwick airport, near Glasgow.” The go on the report that the US has requested permission for two more planes with arms bound for Israel.

    Depleted uranium is considered, by many including most of the EU, to be a banned weapon because of its lingering health effects.

    In fact, DU weapons have been reported as contaminating troops who are simply loading the shells and not in range of the exploded dust.

    That Israel is utilizing these munitions stretches the harm of the bombing from immediate destruction and death, to generational impacts.

    Center for Public Integrity report July 29, 2006


       —Israel and DU    Aug. 3 '06 - 09:53PM    #
  98. Amnesty International (AI) should be jumping with joy at their press release July 27, 2006. This press release sheds an enlightening light on AI.

    Here is the first paragraph of their report. I have added the number of people killed in parenthesis to make my point.

    AI says: “As civilians continue to bear the brunt of the conflict in Israel (19 civilians dead) and Lebanon (900 dead and one million displaced), Amnesty International called for an immediate arms embargo on both Israel and Hizbullah.”

    Waite a minute, Israel gets to attack a peaceful nation (Lebanon), Israel gets to demolish Lebanon’s infrastructure and slaughter its people, and make a million Lebanese into refugees, and spread toxins all over the place, AND it gets to be mentioned first as those who are “bearing the brunt of the conflict”?

    Is that claim accurate? Are Israelis bearing the brunt of this imposed war on Lebanese? Or is this a joke Amnesty is trying to pull one over us?

    Maybe Amnesty is hoping we are all dead and buried and we would not know the difference.

    And the embargo should be enforced on “both sides” while the evidence is only available that US is using UK to send bombs to Israel. There is no evidence of Lebanese receiving anything from anyone.

    See how racism works.


       —Amnesty tells the truth?    Aug. 3 '06 - 10:36PM    #
  99. From post 142: “Just for the record, I do feel that the land that was taken, by force, from the native people of this land has to be returned to them. Or at the very least, native people of America have to meaningfully [sic] compensated for their loss.”

    So, when are you going to compensate them and/or get the hell out of your house, you racist murderer? You said that you feel that their land should be returned to them. Well, so, what are you waiting for, huh? Huh?! I’m waiting for your answer. Or, are you going to wait until the members of America’s First Nations start bombarding you with missiles so you get off their land? Your occupation of land that was forcibly taken from the true indigenous populations of this country is a gross violation of human rights and must end immediately!

    And, since you lied about a simple thing, like this, “I’ll refrain from responding” (post #153) by immediately breaking your promise by responding in post #155, we know we can’t trust you to keep your word about returning the land you occupy or compensating the true owners whom you forcibly evicted.


       —Not a Word for the Genocide of America’s First Nations and Getting off the Land Occupied by Obsessed, Sociopath Killer Americans    Aug. 3 '06 - 11:25PM    #
  100. Jared:

    I dunno. On the one hand, you’re right – the bombing isn’t going to fix anything and Hizbollah clearly isn’t fighting on behalf of the Palestinian people, let alone on behalf of the Lebanese.

    But I hesitate to say that this is really meaningful long term. International forces have been a persistent presence in the region for a long time now. I’m interested to see what happens in Israel re: Hamas and the West Bank. The party that gets a real hold on power in the West Bank and is credible in Tel Avib will be the party to make this work. Israel’s wanted an effective broker for awhile. Its a long shot for Hamas to make the leap, but nothings impossible.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 01:00AM    #
  101. Beth Israel Congregation covers its nationalist support for Israeli Apartheid by holding a special prayer service tomorrow. I have been invited by stop.occupation and plan to be there at 5:30pm, 2000 Washtenaw. I assume all peace activists on this list are also invited. This is our opportunity to remind Ann Arbor’s ocrganized Jewish community that their support of Israel’s policies is not acceptable.

    I’m hoping that Daniel doesn’t leave this list, because his words “that harassing people on their way to worship is wrong” are just not true, and would like to invite you, Daniel, to our vigils on Saturday, 9:30-10:45 AM. BIC has called the cops on us every time the wind shifts, and we have yet to be cited for any wrong-doing. And we’ve maintained this clean slate after almost three years of holding peaceful, silent vigils.

    City Council, bowing to Zionist pressure, passed a resolution ‘condemning’ our vigils. In it they state: “Whereas, State of Michigan laws prohibit interference with religious services” (resolution author Leigh Greden had to dig deep for that one), but merely use the existence of this law to intimidate us.

    We have yet to be charged with anything, because:
    1. We don’t interfere with religious services
    2. We don’t harass individual on their way into the Israeli flag-draped sanctuary
    3. We don’t inhibit pedestrian’s access to the building
    4. We don’t inhibit vehicular traffic into and out of the parking lot

    All we do is remind Zionists that their money:
    1. kills children
    2. demolishes homes
    3. tortures political prisoners
    4. starves millions of innocent people, and
    5. won’t save them.


       —Henry Herskovitz    Aug. 4 '06 - 01:45AM    #
  102. Henry:

    Stop confusing “rights” with “right.” Your rights secure you a number of freedoms that you shouldn’t necessarily exercise anytime the urge strikes you. I never said your protests are illegal. I said your actions are wrong.

    The law is a floor, not a ceiling, and that you’ve evidently gone to great lengths not to break the law is indicative of the shaky moral ground on which you tread. You don’t block traffic or access. You don’t verbally harass. You don’t interfere with services. Wonderful. You’ve found yourself a little niche in the law whereby you can stand outside of church and confont people as they go in to pay homage to God. You’re legal, but you’re still an asshole. Churches, synagogues, mosques – these are places to be respected, not places to target in order to make a political point.

    Peaceful? I submit that engaging in an activity you know to be offensive is hardly peaceful, let alone proper. Violence comes in many forms Henry. Words, even unspoken words, can be violent.

    It is well within your ability to respect their requests for you to stop, cease picketing the church and still get out your message. As your website reflects, this country, this city afford you abundant opportunities to make your voice heard. You write letters to the editor. You petition your elected representatives. You protest in public spaces. You knock on doors. You distribute flyers. Yet you persist in an activity that you know hurts and offends your fellow man, well after it has been made clear to you that it hurts and offends. This is a basic societal norm: When a reasonable request has been made to stop doing something, stop.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:40AM    #
  103. Henry:

    I imagine that you might object to my post by saying that zionism, like racism, is something that must be confronted wherever it hides – even if that means standing outside a place of worship, even if it means offending your neighbors.

    If your message was the thing doing the offending, so be it. But your tactics cannot be ignored, and have been labeled as offensive by the city and by the congregation.

    Racism must be confronted, and if you believe that zionism is a similar societal ill, so be it. But tactics still matter. Just because a synagogue is a convenient place to find Jews doesn’t mean that its an appropriate place to stage a protest. As I said before, you can’t demand respect for the Palestinians while denying it to your neighbor. You’ve got a whole city in which to protest. Use it.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:50AM    #
  104. Daniel owes Henry an apology? Hardly. It’s Henry and his circus clowns dressed as people who called themselves “witnesses for peace” who should be apologizing.

    You want to really debate about Lebanon? Go ahead. I’ll admit that to slaughter innocents is horrible. I’ll admit that the countless civilian casualties in Lebanon is disgraceful. I think that you should also admit that the death and destruction is Israel is horrible too. Remember, most citizens are not their governments and Israelis have varying opinions just like Ann Arborites.

    So, I am here to talk, debate and listen to what you have to say. However, a productive debate talks about both sides. You cannot start a debate by proclaiming that one side has no right to exist. It does not work that way. That’s not a debate, that’s being a dictator which you claim you are against. So, yes, I would love to discuss the innocents in Lebanon needlessly being slaughtered, that much, my friend I totally agree with you on.


       —Jay    Aug. 4 '06 - 03:18AM    #
  105. Daniel need not apologize to anyone. You and Henry and the JWP owe this whole city an apology. “Asshole” is a very mild epithet for what you do and are. You constantly call everyone who doesn’t swallow your whole propaganda hook, line, and sinker far, far worse, so you’ve got no business objecting to the very mild and absolutely true epithet that applies to both you and Mr. Herskovitz.

    Who gives you the authority to tell anyone what they should and shouldn’t do/say/think? Your unbridled arrogance and hostility, clearly.

    And, why don’t you answer the question about when you’re going to return the house and land you brutally stole from the Native Americans you massacred? After all, you admitted as much (post 142). And when are you going to keep your word about not responding (post 153)? Never, obviously.


       —Not a Word on the Genocide of America’s First Nations and Getting off the Land Occupied by Obsessed, Sociopath, Arrogant Killer Ann Arbor Residents    Aug. 4 '06 - 03:39AM    #
  106. Slight interlude (time out): Daniel, while I truly appreciate your remarks, which are pretty sane and lucid, I have one seemingly minor plea: please don’t ever call a synagogue a “church.” I don’t think Hindus would want their temples called “churches” any more than Moslems would want their mosques to be so labeled. I know of no practitioners of Judaism who would like their synagogues to be called “churches.” I also know that you meant no offense, and I’m sure you were using what you believe to be a generic term (the more neutral “house of worship” works best in that sense), but this is also an issue of respect for other people’s traditions. Please don’t take offense at my comments here as I can tell you have only the best of intentions. Thank you.

    Thanks for your very rational words on the very controversial topic that is discussed (rarely) and shouted about (often) here under the main theme below the chosen rubric.


       —Mike    Aug. 4 '06 - 03:57AM    #
  107. Dan:

    I liked Thomas Friedman’s suggestion because groups like Hezbollah define themselves by the struggle. When the “struggle” ends, they’re in trouble. Thus what happened in Lebanon after Israel left in 2000. There was a vacuum, and in order to remain relevant, Hezbollah had to continue their “struggle.” I see no use for Hezbollah (given their anti-semitic and genocidal aims) especially after Israel left Lebanon.

    Which is why extensive bombing and occupation can and will backfire. Hezbollah will, with many saying they now already, have a purpose again. A peaceful ceasefire puts them in a difficult situation.

    Since Israel has trouble responding appropriately, and since Middle East stability is in EVERYONE’S interest, a multinational force might actually work.

    Or maybe its my aversion to bombing and war that I wish Israel pursue a more peaceful path. I don’t know.

    As for your comments to Henry: AMEN. Henry doesn’t quite seem to understand that it may not be a Zionist conspiracy in Ann Arbor which makes his voice a fringe one, but his own tactics. His allegations are completely self-fulfilling: knowing full well that his tactics are offensive, he “predicts” he will not be given a forum, alleging a conspiracy. Ockham’s Razor, Henry. Ockham’s Razor.

    “I will refrain from comment, if you want, but you need to show some honor here.” A)I’m waiting for you to refrain from comment. Refraining from comment is not saying you’re going to do it and then posting again in five minutes.

    B) Need to show some honor here? Wow, now isn’t that totally the pot calling the kettle black?


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 4 '06 - 04:55AM    #
  108. The reason Henry and the other “witnesses” do what they do is because they have deep-rooted psychological problems stemming from childhood that they have not resolved.

    Seriously, I am sure this is what it is. Henry was teased at school and Blaine had his lunch money stolen from another little Jewish boy so now we’re all paying for it.

    Will the person who stole Blaine’s lunch money just write him a check already (with interest) so we can all move on from this? And will the kid who teased Henry please just email him an apology so he stops taking his issues out on a small little community and yelling at little old ladies walking in and out of a Synagogue?


       —Jay    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:53AM    #
  109. “Daniel, while I truly appreciate your remarks, which are pretty sane and lucid, I have one seemingly minor plea: please don’t ever call a synagogue a ‘church.’”

    I apologize. I know better and tried to be accurate, but evidently I screwed up.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 11:17AM    #
  110. “I liked Thomas Friedman’s suggestion because groups like Hezbollah define themselves by the struggle. When the “struggle” ends, they’re in trouble.”

    I totally disagree with this. Hezbollah will define themselves in whatever manner required in order to ensure their continued survival. Groups don’t go away simply because their original objectives cease to exist. They adapt to a new objective tangently related to the old one and move on. For example: If racism ended tomorrow and Blacks were made equal to Whites in every respect, would the NAACP just die away? Sure, it would lose some support. But it would find a new mission in which it could continue to exist.

    Organizations, like organisms, want to stay alive. Terrorist organizations are no different. Hezbollah might lose a base of support in Lebanon, but you don’t necessarily need a base of support to carry out the low-tech style of warfare that is characteristic of these groups.

    It isn’t the “struggle” that needs to be eliminated – its the legitimization of violence against Israel and against Jews. If that were to disappear, Hezbollah would remain, but in benign form.

    But I don’t think that’s something that is likely to go away. Hezbollah will always have a convenient means of staying politically relevant.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 11:43AM    #
  111. Lebanon has failed in it’s responsibility to control the land within it’s borders and has not developed an army capable of preventing foreigners from using their land to attack foreign countries. It is getting what it deserves. If a foreign country invaded the U.P. and started killing and kidnapping Canadian citizens and we did nothing to stop it, or worse, made the attackers a part of our legitimate government, then I would expect Canada to fight back with all its resources to defend their citizens. Since the majority of Lebanese civilians support Hezbollah attacks, they are mislabeled as “innocents”.


       —Not like Blaine at all    Aug. 4 '06 - 11:52AM    #
  112. Jared:

    The more you respond to Blaine, the more he’s gonna post. You can’t reason with him. He’s not interested. If you want to have this conversation, I can’t stop you. But I’m asking you and everyone else who’s tired of him and the other anonymous Blaine cronies to just stop including them in the conversation. They’ve had plenty of opportunties to play nice.

    “The reason Henry and the other “witnesses” do what they do is because they have deep-rooted psychological problems stemming from childhood that they have not resolved.”

    Maybe. More likely though, they’re just dime-a-dozen extremists. They believe that their cause is so worthy as to justify any means of achieving it.

    Just like Jared said, this goes in cycles. Henry is a great case study. He offends people with his tactics. Henry is condemned, then politically ostracized by the community – limiting his ability to sell his message. In response, he becomes more persistent, convinced that he’s being treated this way because people disagree with his politics, or because “Zionists” have blocked his access to the forum in which his message would get through. Around and around we go.

    But ultimately, Henry’s problem boils down to this: The Jewish community said, “Henry. Stop picketing at our synagogue.” Henry has chosen to ignore this very simple, very reasonable request. In short: This is a issue of basic human respect, something that Henry and his ilk are sorely lacking.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 12:37PM    #
  113. Wow, I’ve been lurking on these troll baiting posts for years seeing chickenshits sign themselves as “Not a Word for the Genocide of America’s First Nations and Getting off the Land Occupied by Obsessed, Sociopath Killer Americans” and “Boycott Israel” and the like. Great way to break down something as important as war and peace in the Middle East to its basest, ugliest level. This string just clinches it; I’m going out and buying an Israeli flag. Am I gonna burn it in protest? Nope, gonna fly it proudly and get a sign for the yard that says “Goyim for Israel”. I can tell you if some self hating Catholics and Bob Jones types protested outside my parish every Sunday I might just lose my religion and kick ‘em in the ass. Would that make me a bad Christian? Maybe I’ll be outside Beth Emth or Beth Israel this Shabbat as a counter-protestor to you crackpots. Probably not though as I’ve got better things to do then try to solve complex geo-political religious issues and interfere with someone’s worship of God with a rickety cardboard sign spewing hatred in Ann freaking Arbor. I’ll just vent on ya in a blog.


       —Thomas Cook    Aug. 4 '06 - 12:58PM    #
  114. No, Mr. Cook explained it right. You are cowards. You sit there in front of a Synagogue and yell at little old ladies who walk in and out trying to practice their religion.

    Attention everyone on this blog: JWPF harasses people in front of a Synagogue every week and calls themselves a peace group. What a laugh. They are a bunch of mean, under handed cowards who have their own psychological problems and hate Jewish people.

    That’s what this is all about my friends, hatred of Jews. All of these other posts mean nothing. The bottom line is Henry, Blaine, et al, hate the Jewish people and want to do whatever they can to make their lives miserable.

    They have chosen to try and prevent people from worshipping in peace. This is going on right here in America, my friends. A group actually harassing people as they walk in and out of a place of worship. The same tactic was used in Nazi Germany. JWPF: You should be very proud.


       —Jay    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:09PM    #
  115. “The same tactic was used in Nazi Germany.”

    Danger, Will Robinson.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:11PM    #
  116. Just curious. Why do you say that? It is true. The Nazis during the Third Reich used to protest in front of Jewish businesses and places of worship intimidating people with signs encouraging them not to enter those places.

    What is the difference?

    Thanks.


       —Jay    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:14PM    #
  117. By the way, Dan, I am not saying that JWPF uses EVERY Gestapo tactic. Just this particular one.


       —Jay    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:15PM    #
  118. Oh, and one more thing…..I am happy to engage in debate with Henry and Blaine but they refuse to answer or engage in debate with me. If they write civil posts, I will respond in kind. I would love to hear their views and why they do what they do. There are two sides to every story in the world. In order for debate to occur and for people to learn, that is the first thing that needs to be acknowledged, then we can debate.

    The fact of the matter is, the JWPF platform and tactics are so flawed, they are humiliated to really debate because at the end, they are fearful they will come out looking stupid.


       —Jay    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:19PM    #
  119. Daniel: You’re right that the synagogue has asked that we stop vigilling. No argument here. The question is what are they willing to do to get what they want. Here’s what the scorecard says: We approached them with personal witness from Palestine and wished to address the congregation. They (Rabbi Dobrusin) said no. We organized the vigil group and started our protests.

    And now the ball is clearly in the congregation’s court. They can work towards ending the vigils, but they have chosen the same silence that brought life to the vigils in the first place. It’s funny, but one of the prayers at Yom Kippur asks for forgiveness for the sin of being “stiff necked”.

    You can continue to call me names, but like Blaine says, that’s just a diversion from the atrocities of Israel’s state terrorism.

    If you want to do something constructive about what clearly bothers you – our vigils – then take our willingness to have discussions with Beth Israel to them, and have them help us decide to move on.

    And Thomas: I don’t request an apology for your veiled physical threat to kick me in the ass. I will, however, contact Officer Sartori of the AAPD and file a complaint if you persist. I don’t know the name of the moderator of this list, but you will be charged as well. I take threats to my well being very seriously.


       —Henry Herskovitz    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:21PM    #
  120. If all you want to do is address the congregation with someone who will express an opinion then I think that’s fair. I was not aware that is all you wanted.

    Is it that you will address the congregation every single week? That I would think is completely unreasonable. If you just want to get a message out to the congregation then that seems reasonable in my opinion.

    I do feel the vigils are awful but if you will move on after getting a platform, then I believe (personally) that is what you should happen. Not that I have any influence over Beth Israel, I am just expressing my opinion after reading this last post.


       —Jay    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:38PM    #
  121. “They can work towards ending the vigils, but they have chosen the same silence that brought life to the vigils in the first place.”

    That Beth Israel could end the vigils by bending to your demands doesn’t alter or excuse the fact that your behavior is abhorrent.

    You could end the vigils by stopping the vigils. The ball is in your court Henry.

    I’m not calling you an asshole to detract from the conversation. I’m calling you an asshole, because you being an asshole is the subject of this conversaion. If you prefer “jerk,” I’ll use that instead.

    Let’s break it down: What about Beth Israel’s request for you to stop was unreasonable? What about their denial of your request to speak was unreasonable?


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 02:45PM    #
  122. Henry, I’ll be more likely to buy ya a tall cool beverage of your choice rather than kick anyone’s ass ya dingdong. I never threatened you. I ain’t threatening a soul on this earth. Have you got no humor in you? Call the cops – they know what a terrorist I am – they just made me cut down my sunflowers cuz they were a traffic hazard. More likely what I’d do is what I always do in this wacky town when I drive/walk by a group of the chronically unemployable and unwashed protesting this week’s injustice in the world – shake my head and say a mea culpa cuz I’m a miserable sinner and just as much an idiot as the next guy. As to Stop Israel’s comments – he’s scarier and more threatening than I am. I put my name out – I’m in the phone book. Just make sure ya get the right Sarah Conner there Terminator. He should see the P.O.S. I drive (and I didn’t get a driver’s license till I was 28 and my wife got tired of carting my ass around. I walked 1 hour to work uphill – no, really, – both ways for years) and my non-air-conditioned sweltering-hot house before he says boo about me. That cracker is the dangerous one; I’m just a dipshit who got tired of lurking here and spouted off when I shoulda just pointed at ya and laughed. Cheesing off your neighbor on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday at their synagogue, mosque, church, bar, or other place of worship doesn’t do a thing but prove you’re a “man of peace” who hates injustice and loves humanity in the abstract but hates his neighbor face to face. You guys are just mean, and there’s no worse thing you can be in this world than mean.


       —Thomas Cook    Aug. 4 '06 - 03:17PM    #
  123. Jay:

    Nazi Germany is rarely, if ever, an appropriate basis for comparison for anything that goes on in Ann Arbor. Even if it is accurate that the Nazis engaged in similar behavior, a silent protest in Ann Arbor, however rude or inappropriate, is quite different than from the Nazi anti-semitism that eventually led to millions of Jews and other peoples to be executed in gas chambers. Differences in context matter. I just think the comparision shouldn’t be made.

    Nor is Henry an anti-semite. He’s just a jerk. He seems to think that if he is rude enough, long enough, that the synagogue will bend to his will.

    You seem to think that Beth Israel should give in. I strongly disagree. You don’t reward inconsiderate behavior with accommodation, however slight.

    Henry needs to apologize to the synagogue and to its membership and move on.


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 03:31PM    #
  124. Reply to message 170:

    Daniel, thank you for your sensitivity.


       —Mike    Aug. 4 '06 - 03:36PM    #
  125. Re: 187, Thomas it’s now clear I misconstrued your message, and accept your offer of a tall, cool beverage, however virtual it might be…

    Re: us being mean: I really extend to you – and anyone else reading this – an invitation to observe our Saturday vigils. As in parking your P.O.S. (and it’s not really my right to refer to your vehicle as such), and come over face to face and talk. After a discussion, if you walk away still convinced we’re mean, then so be it. You will have at least made the effort.

    p.s. loved the reference to Sarah Conner… I’ll be back!


       —Henry Herskovitz    Aug. 4 '06 - 03:58PM    #
  126. Henry:

    I’m curious as to whether your willing or able to answer my question from earlier: What about Beth Israel’s request for you to stop was unreasonable? What about their denial of your request to speak was unreasonable?


       —Daniel Adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 04:29PM    #
  127. Well I am at work Henry (wasting valuable company time) so I am short of good booze (my boss musta found my bottle hidden in the drop ceiling in the bathroom) but the offer was meant.

    Anyone anywhere at anytime can call my car a P.O.S. There is one infinite Truth in the universe and it’s this: I may be a fat American but I drive a bucket.

    It’s not your vigil that makes me see red, it’s where ya have it. What is Joe Challah (or Joe Tabbouleh or Joe Fish-Fry-on-Friday) going to his worship of choice going to do about anything a bazillion miles away except take care of his own soul? Heck, good luck making him use his blinker when changing lanes – that he can control at least. Go protest at the fed building or a consulate, write letters to the editor, etc. I remember we had some peace protestors speak at a class I had at UM saying how they would drain themselves of a pint of blood and break into missile sites or Air Force bomber sites and throw their blood on the equipment in protest. Dumb ass 18 year old kid that I was (and in the US Army Reserves at the time) I asked “why don’t ya donate your blood and throw red paint?” They had no answer to that. Protesting at a synagogue strikes me as a similar sort of thing – doesn’t seem the appropriate action. I get the whole inform and educate the people angle but, apropos my comment about getting my ire up and maybe acting with my foot rather than my heart and mind, doing so outside someone’s house of worship seems like fighting words or yelling fire in a crowded theater. I tell ya how I’d take it – these guys don’t like Jews. Do it at the Fed Bldg and I’d say these guys don’t like what Israel is doing. That’s a legit argument (at least I think we can agree there are real issues involved there). If after 9/11 I went up to the Islamic Center up on the north side and held up a sign denouncing Al-Qaeda that would probably be something the vast majority of humanity could agree on but would be rude as hell to all the folks inside who’ve got nothing to do with anything. Though they aren’t co-religionists those folks are my neighbors and children of God and in life it’s a good thing to not cheese off your neighbors (which I’m not doing such a hot job of, am I?).


       —Thomas Cook    Aug. 4 '06 - 04:39PM    #
  128. • Regarding post #175: “Wow, I’ve been lurking on these troll baiting posts for years seeing chickenshits sign themselves as ‘Not a Word for the Genocide of America’s First Nations and Getting off the Land Occupied by Obsessed, Sociopath Killer Americans’ and ‘Boycott Israel’ and the like. Great way to break down something as important as war and peace in the Middle East to its basest, ugliest level.”

    Thomas, Thomas, please calm down. You obviously didn’t read the accompanying text to the posts signed “Not a Word for the Genocide of America’s First Nations and Getting off the Land Occupied by Obsessed, Sociopath Killer Americans (and Ann Arborites).” If you have been lurking and carefully following the “discussions” (ranting and raving is what it actually too often is as it’s hijacked by obsessed, hate-driven, psychopathological, extremist morons like Blaine Coleman [and his melodramatic slogan signatures] and Henry Herskovitz), you would have seen the irony of the text and the headline-type signature I used. You must realize that since these JWPF folk don’t want to dialog, just foam at the mouth, that the only way to deal with them is to ignore them and/or poke holes in their blind and pathological hatred and ridiculous commentary. They have absolutely no sense of humor as they take themselves and everything that spews forth from their leaking oral cavities and poison-pen keyboards so seriously. They are as nuanced as the stripes on a zebra, but their egos, self-righteousness, and arrogance are boundless. Are you as lacking in humor—not about the situation in the Middle East, which is certainly dire but as regards Messieurs Blaine and Herskovitz and their insanity and inanity—as they? Come on, lighten up: you missed the purpose.

    As for the rest of your post, right on, Brother Thomas, right on! Please know the enemy, and target them not the person who parodies them to make what he thought was an obvious point and appreciates having you and all other rational people making the good arguments that need to be made.


       —Blue and White    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:02PM    #
  129. So (someone tell me why I’m bothering doing this please) unnamed one of post ad infinitum but most recently #197, what are you saying? Israel is too far away so we can’t protest their actions at a consulate so let’s harass Jews at their synagogue? Forgive a silly Gentile making a prediction about other people but I’d guess in Ann Arbor there are probably a bunch of folks walking in on Friday night (or pick your religion/day of worship) that are heart sick and praying for the people of Lebanon and Israel and Gaza and Iran and Djibouti (fun name, couldn’t resist). I was thinking of getting an Israeli flag but now ya got me worried I may be signing a “please protest outside my house” request. Maybe I’ll get a Lebanese flag too. More interesting anyway. I like trees.


       —Thomas Cook    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:05PM    #
  130. What I want to know (and nobody will answer me) what kind of platform do you want from Beth Israel in order for you to move on? A weekly forum? A one time presentation from a Palestinian living in the territories? I am just curious.

    Also, Daniel: I appreciate your comments, however, some of the time if someone (group) wants a forum to express an opinion and all one needs to do is give them a forum for all of this nastiness to go away and maybe some healing and real understanding to replace it, I don’t think actually that’s so bad. What’s it going to hurt to listen to someone else’s viewpoint? I believe JWPF should also listen to other’s views and not be so horribly nasty on these posts but that’s not for me to judge.

    What is NOT clear to me is the kind of forum JWPF wants to stop the vigils. Based on what I think they want, it should have been given to them a long time ago. It would have saved a lot of anguish to the Beth Israel community in my opinion.

    Regarding my Nazi comparison, I was comparing tactic for tactic not regime to regime if that makes sense.

    Comparing Israel to Nazis like is done in these posts is also wrong and I agree two wrongs don’t make a right so I will stop making those kinds of comparisons and I would ask other to please do the same.

    Thank you.


       —Jay    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:21PM    #
  131. So Jay,
    By your logic, if you had people picketing your house, calling you a racist zionist killer you’d invite them in?

    Isn’t the synagogue supported by it’s dues paying members, not the public? Why should they offer a forum?
    Why don’t you go ask the local Islamic Center to offer a forum for a pro-Israel group to address them.
    Or a Catholic Church to invite a pro-choice group?

    Why do you think this reasonable for a synagogue & no one else?


       —Kay    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:36PM    #
  132. • “The fact of the matter is, the JWPF platform and tactics are so flawed, they are humiliated to really debate because at the end, they are fearful they will come out looking stupid.”

    Sorry, Jay, if they were really fearful of that, they would shut up. They’re not afraid of looking stupid. They are stupid, and they display that for all to see every time they open their big mouths and stick their big feet in them.


       —Mike    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:37PM    #
  133. Re # 185: Jay, here is why Herskovitz’s request is not any more reasonable than his picketing of Beth Israel:

    Post 184 clearly demonstrates the convoluted, tortured “logic” and extreme arrogance of the JWPF. Beth Israel owes them nothing. It is a private place of worship, not a public forum for any outside marauders who want to harangue the congregation with whatever point of view they hold dear. Should a band of skinheads, Aryan Nations, Ku-Klux-Klan, and/or other neo-Nazis want to address the congregation on why “Jews are vermin” and should be exterminated start demonstrating in front of the synagogue until they are invited in to address the congregation on this subject, be warmly welcomed inside the sanctuary? Should Fred Phelps, whose lunatic ravings “God Hates Fags” be invited into the church that finds his views as intolerant and abhorrent as they are? Beginning to get the point?

    So, because JWPF doesn’t get its way, what does Henry and his merry band of screaming-sign toting vigilantes do? They take their harassment outside in front of the synagogue on the Holy Sabbath and stalk the congregants with their Nazi-like signs and tactics. If anyone did this in front of a church or a mosque in town, you’d never hear the end of it, but let a band of brownshirt riffraff do so in front of a Jewish house of worship where the demonstrators are ugly and confrontational—no matter what they would have you believe—then all of a sudden, that’s just fine and dandy. Well, no my friends, it’s utterly reprehensible—and I might add, an absolutely counterproductive tactic as it achieves the exact opposite of its stated goal of cutting off financial support for Israel—and anyone with a quarter of a brain would have seen that these tactics only fan the flames of hatred, stir up antisemitism, and rally people to support Israel with far greater determination. And, I might also point out, as more than one person has clearly stated, the pointed targeting of Jews on their day of rest, reflection, and prayer is absolutely pure, unadulterated antisemitism. Other than the JWPF looking for every avenue to display their hatred of Jews—not just Israel—the only reason one can see for their militant attachment to these Nazi-style maneuvers is their unbridled egotistical, self-righteous arrogance fed by a single obsession. They live for nothing else. This is the very definition of socio-pathological behavior.


       —Mike    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:45PM    #
  134. I seriously cannot believe that anyone in their right mind is even quasi-considering giving the loony bin a forum.

    Children, malcontents and delinquents are to be scolded for their behavior, not rewarded. Henry and Blaine clearly fall somewhere in that category.


       —Meva    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:59PM    #
  135. Re Post 198 from Blue and White: uh, sorry home cooking, I’m an idiot. Ya flew right past me – I honestly haven’t poured thru every word on this (who could?). I just saw the name you posted as and figured it was more wacky Ann Arbor silliness, you gotta admit that signature could be coming to a protest sign at the farmers market soon (don’t give ‘em ideas Tom). Reread ya and you rule my friend. God, I should be working. Gotta keep up the payments on my lifestyle that is making the world hate me specifically.


       —Thomas Cook    Aug. 4 '06 - 05:59PM    #
  136. Yes, Thomas, you and I all the people who have lives should get back to work. Take care, buddy.


       —Blue and White (not Monochromatic)    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:01PM    #
  137. We’re still waiting for you tell us when you’ll get off the land you violently stole from the native Americans and make restitution.


       —Give back that Land and House and Shut Up Already, Tape Recorder    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:04PM    #
  138. Are you proud to be a murderous, lying, a****le who won’t keep either his promise to return the land he stole or make restitution or even his promise to stop responding?


       —Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:15PM    #
  139. SELTZER’S PA Dutch Sizzler Sandwich

    1 lb. Seltzer’s Lebanon Bologna (any variety, sliced thick or thin to your liking) 8 large sandwich buns 8 slices cheese honey mustard Place bologna on a hot grill, frying pan or griddle. Cook 1 1/2 minutes, turn the slices and cook an additional 1 1/2 minutes. Melt cheese on top. Spread buns with mustard. Place the bologna slices on sandwich buns. You may also add tomato slices, lettuce, pickles, onions and any of your favorite sandwich fixings. Makes 8 sandwiches.
       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:23PM    #
  140. Deviled Eggs – Seltzer’s Style

    6 eggs 4 slices Seltzer’s Lebanon Bologna (any variety, chopped fine) 4 tbsp mayonnaise 1 tsp dried mustard Salt & pepper to taste Paprika for garnish Hard boil eggs, slice in half lengthwise and remove yolks and mix with remaining ingredients. Place mixture into Egg halves and sprinkle with paprika. Makes 12 deviled eggs.
       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:27PM    #
  141. SELTZER’S Sweet ‘n Sour Party Popovers

    One 8 oz. package crescent rolls 8 Seltzer’s Lebanon Bologna slices, halved (any variety) Sweet ‘n Sour mustard 1 c. shredded Cheddar cheese Separate dough, flatten each triangle slightly and spread with mustard. Place two half slices of bologna on each triangle and sprinkle with cheese. Rolls triangle into crescent. Bake at 350º for 12 minutes. Makes 8 popovers.
       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:28PM    #
  142. Seltzer’s Quick ‘n Easy Party Quiche

    1 medium onion, copped 1 cup sliced mushrooms 2 tbsp butter Dash of Salt & Pepper 3 eggs 1 1/2 cup milk 3 cup Bisquick 2 cup shredded Cheddar Cheese 8 oz. diced Seltzer’s Lebanon Bologna (any variety) Sauté onions and mushrooms in 2 tbsp of butter until tender. Mix all ingredients in bowl. Pour into ungreased 9 1/2” x 11” pan. Bake at 400 for 30 minutes. Serves 8
       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:30PM    #
  143. YOU are the one who’s worthless.


       —Man, do you Change Your Name Every Time a New Slogan Hits Your Low Bandwith Brain, or is it the Pollution?    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:31PM    #
  144. Seltzer’s Onion Fingers

    1/2 lb butter (softened) 1 pkg dry onion soup mix 4 slices Seltzer’s Lebanon Bologna (any variety, chopped into fine pieces) 10 slices white bread, crusts removed Mix butter and soup mix. Add bologna and spread mixture onto one side of each bread slice. Cut each slice into 4 pieces. Place on cookie sheet. Bake at 400 for 5 minutes. Serve warm. Makes 40 fingers
       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:31PM    #
  145. Hey, Homer, great recipes! I’m gonna try them but I need to know if you need real Lebanese people to make the sausage? I’ve got half a Syrian in my fridge and am wondering if that’s close enough.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:32PM    #
  146. Various aspects of the microbiology of the Lebanon bologna process were studied. Manufacture of Lebanon bologna appeared to be similar to that of summer sausage and other fermented sausages and consisted of a lactic acid fermentation by lactobacilli accompanied by the production of cured meat color from the reduction of nitrate by micrococci. The traditional process consists of aging coarse ground beef at 5 C for several days. Aging the beef for about 10 days was necessary to allow development of lactic acid bacteria; for successful fermentation, the concentration of lactic acid producers must be 104/g or more. At least 3% NaCl was necessary to suppress the development of pseudomonads during the aging period; higher concentrations of salt suppress the development of the lactic acid-producing flora. During aging, in the presence of salt, the predominant flora developing on the meat consisted of catalase-positive, gram-positive rods and cocci; during fermentation at 35 C, the predominant flora became catalase-negative, gram-positive rods with characteristics of lactobacilli. Lebanon bologna could be made from frozen beef if the meat was thawed, salted, and aged. However, bolognas could not be made from unaged beef unless a lactic acid starter culture was used. The microflora of several commercial bolognas is reported also.


       —Homer Simpson    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:34PM    #
  147. I’m just saying.


       —ARRRRRHHHRHHRHHHHHHFGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:42PM    #
  148. All Hail Blaine, Keeper of the Truth, Guardian of the Big Lie, Dictator of What We’re Supposed to Discuss and Believe and Man of a Thousand Names! One of which, BTW, ISN’T I’m Now Going To Tell You When I’m Going To Return The House And Land I Grabbed By Force Of Arms From Ann Arbor’s Indigenous Peoples. We bow to your dictates, oh Wise and Powerful All-Knowing One! Who are we to argue with the Big Man Who Always Tellin’ Us What to Do, What to Think, How to Say It and Only Will Entertain any Discussion if it Parrots Word for Word His Own Regal Blather?


       —Man, do you Change Your Name Every Time a New Slogan Hits Your Low Bandwith Brain, or is it the Pollution?    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:43PM    #
  149. We’ve gone round the bend.

    out,


       —Daniel adams    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:51PM    #
  150. Well fuck me, then. How was I supposed to know that you used beef?

    Anybody got any recipes that call for like forty pounds of leftover Syrian? Maybe a casserole?


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:52PM    #
  151. If it helps, I do have a food processor.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:55PM    #
  152. “That is why you avoid discussions and just keep badmouthing people and writing silly, mindless, garbage over and over again.”

    Look carefully at this quote above for a perfect definition of Blaine and his Pseudonyms. Bravo, Blaine, you’re getting somehwere at last. You’ve at least had enough introspection to analyze how your mind works and lay it bare for all to see.

    No one has to badmouth you because you do a better job of it than anyone. And all the insults you so gratuitously hurl around at anyone that doesn’t accept your drivel 100% as being the gospel truth, I suppose that’s a substitute for rational discussion? You’re not only a liar and a demagogue, you’re a first-rate hypocrite.

    You’re so full of it, you’ll never see that you’re as blind as a bat. There’s absolutely no reason to respond to your mindless platitudinous BS, because you never allow an opposing opinion no matter how well-reasoned to interfere with your slogan-stuffed, simplistic brain. I pity you because you’re so full of crap, that you’ll never see what a jerk you are. Virtually everyone else sees it.


       —Enough Already of Blaine's Banal, Baseless Blather    Aug. 4 '06 - 06:59PM    #
  153. Hey, come on! That was mean. You don’t want it to go to waste, do you? This is Prime Syrian we’re talking about. I bought it at a kosher deli in Oak Park.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 4 '06 - 07:00PM    #
  154. What about Returning the Land you Stole? What about Not Responding?


       —Breaks All His Vows    Aug. 4 '06 - 07:10PM    #
  155. “What.About.Lebanon?”

    I told you, jackoff, I don’t have any Lebanese meat. Do you speak English? No Lebanese meat. No Lebanese meat. No Lebanese meat. No Lebanese meat. And yeah, I could go buy some, but then the Syrian is going to start to rot. So can you help a brother out? Hook me up with your recipe mojo! I’ve got phyllo dough. I’ve got cardamom. So something with a Middle Eastern flavor would be perfect.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 4 '06 - 07:14PM    #
  156. Where’d everybody go? Will no one talk about Syrians here? What do you have against Syrians? Yeah, I know it’s cheaper than Lebanese or Palestinian, but I think it tastes just as good, if not better. It’s a little gamier, maybe, but that’s because of their diet. And it’s nowhere near as gamey as Turk.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 4 '06 - 07:31PM    #
  157. Sing it with me Smiths fans:

    The death of a serious topic post/well it happens a lot round here/ and if you think peace is a commmon goal that goes to show how little you know

    what the hell were we talking about again?


       —Thomas Cook    Aug. 4 '06 - 07:41PM    #
  158. Bombing tenderizes ‘em! If you’re talking tenderized Lebanese, then that’s clearly a superior piece of meat.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 4 '06 - 07:42PM    #
  159. 2 4 6 8 Israel is a JEWISH State

    3 5 7 9 There aint no such thing as PALESTINE.

    Cannot argue with the truth of the above statements. There is no legal country now in the world called “Palestine” and Israel is a Jewish state.

    The funny thing is….Israel is winning. If Israel was not winning (as they always do) you would not be posting such bitter and angry postings calling Israel all these names. They are attacking the Lebanese infrastructure where Hezbola exists and ridding the area of terror.

    Israel as always will be victorious and the Palestinians will be in the same predicament they were in before….still perpetrating attacks against Israel.

    You yourself say that Israel and the Zionists have so much power while the poor defenseless Arabs have none. Isn’t it then counterproductive for the poor, defenseless Arabs to keep attacking a country 10 million times stronger than they are.

    Your goals vis-a-vis the Palestinians will NEVER be met…trust me when I tell you NEVER. You can scream and jump up and down and say horrible, and spew your horrible Nazi-like rhetoric and wave these made up flags from made up countries until the proverbial cow comes home. It aint gonna change the fact that Israel is here and here to stay. The sooner the Palestinians, the ultra-left, the Arab world and the rest of the anti-Israel establishment come to terms with the that, the better off everyone will be.

    Bottom line is you all enjoy this. You get off on the suffering on BOTH sides. You sit in your little Ann Arbor cocoons and watch CNN/FOX (they are both horrible) and decide you know how to fix the world. Most of you have never even traveled out of the USA let alone to Israel or some of the semiautonomous Palestinian zones. You want to keep the Palestinians as victims to keep your BS platform going. You have no interest in peace and justice for Palestinians. You LOVE what is happening to these poor Lebanese civilians because you feel it gives you leverage. You could really care less about anyone except your self-hating, ultra-leftist craziness.

    You are a complete fools if you really think Israel is going anywhere.

    Gee, what flag should I fly? The “Palestinian” flag, the Lebanese Flag? Oh, maybe the Iranian flag? The Iranians have always stood for human rights and justice for all. I think today I will fly that flag.

    Bottom line: These “peace activists” make tons of noise but they only number a few crazy people. That’s the important point to remember. They are all crazy, fringe loons who thrive on Arab and Lebanese misery. You want to keep these people down to keep spreading your cause. Keep trying and Israel will keep thriving.

    Zionism is a wonderful thing created so Jews would never be in a subservient position again. I am sorry if the world cannot deal with that. Too bad.

    Bottom line is all you people actually amuse me. Waving flags of nonexistent countries has to be listed someplace in a Psychological text book as a disorder.


       —Racist Islamic Terrorists    Aug. 4 '06 - 07:57PM    #
  160. When, when, when will someone talk about Syria? Now you’re bringing up Israel? Since when is that the topic here? We’re discussing the butchering and preparation of Arab meat. Israeli meat is not kosher. Check Leviticus if you doubt me. And I’m just gonna go back to searching Epicurious if someone doesn’t give me some suggestions for cooking all of this Syrian meat that’s filling up my fridge. I can freeze it if I have too, but it’s so much better fresh.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 4 '06 - 08:37PM    #
  161. Hello? Hello? What, do I stink? Gosh I feel bad if I stifled whatever sort of groove you guys had going on.

    Anyone know how to spit-roast an Egyptian? Stick up the ass and out the mouth, like with a pig? Just wondering. No hurry—I’m thinking ahead to labor day.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 5 '06 - 03:18AM    #
  162. Hey! This is a little more urgent. Anyone know how to do a ceviche of Iranian eyeballs? I’m thinking they’re too big to do whole. Does the lemon juice turn the fluid inside into a jello-like substance so you can slice them, or do they just deflate and leak slime all over the plate or cutting board? I need to know cause if I’m going to chop them up, and lose the fluid, I’m going to have to go back to Oak Park for more eyeballs. And, what the hell, as long as I’m there I’ll pick up some chopped Algerian liver to put on my next “Who’s Greenberg Anyway.”


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 5 '06 - 03:49AM    #
  163. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East provides for the basic needs of Palestinians—over a million Palestinians!—forced by Arab states neighboring Israel to live in virtual concentration camps.

    Nearly a quarter million Palestinians live in UNRWA camps in Lebanon characterized by high population density, cramped living conditions, inadequate basic infrastructure such as roads and sewers, and abject poverty.

    According to UNRWA, Lebanon treats residents as foreigners: no social or civil rights, very limited access to Lebanese public health or educational facilities, and no access to public social services. Furthermore, they are prohibited by law from working in more than 70 trades and professions, which has led to a very high rate of unemployment.

    Indeed, Lebanon resists: Lebanon resists the humane treatment of Palestinians.


       —PoV    Aug. 5 '06 - 07:39PM    #
  164. Jared thinks I use too many hyperbolic statements. Mike thinks Jewish Witnesses for Peace and Friends targets Jews, i.e. we’re anti-Semitic. Meva thinks we are shills for the Israeli government. Daniel thinks we’re just a fringe group. Jay claims we have psychological problems. Thomas says we’re self hating, and the Novice Sausage Maker … I don’t know what he thinks.

    So here’s the Vigil Challenge: I will assemble two to four regular vigillers, and in panel format will attempt to answer any civilized questions people on this list may have, e.g. human recipes are out. We can do this in my back yard on the West Side, or any public or campus location suitable for such a Q&A period.

    I’m disappointed that Thomas didn’t show up at today’s vigil, but can understand that he doesn’t want to appear part of our group. So a non-Sabbath timed event at a non-synagogue location would seem appropriate.

    If others on this list aren’t posting, but would still like to assemble their own group of people to ask us questions, please send your interest to vigilannarbor@hotmail.com.

    What’s to lose?


       —Henry Herskovitz    Aug. 5 '06 - 09:05PM    #
  165. Henry –

    I would assume that as a Jewish person you know that services are held more than once a week. Like, every day of the week, three times.

    Why do your childish protests on the Sabbath? Is it because you know you will come off as a bigger asshole that way? Why aren’t you in the synagogue on Saturday?! Hell, why not do it on Yom Kippur, so that even God will think you’re an asshole? You don’t go to synagogue anyway.

    Ann arbor is ashamed of you, and God is ashamed of you. None of this will change no matter when you protest. So why not do it during the week? The answer is simple – you really don’t care about your message. You are one of those psychological cases that requires as much attention as possible. You really don’t care that you offende as many people as possible.


       —Meva    Aug. 6 '06 - 02:40AM    #
  166. I’m just trying to find a fucking recipe before forty pounds of prime Syrian gets rotten. Can we get back on topic here, please! Jesus, it’s like pulling teeth with you people. If I have to go out and shoot another Syrian, you’re gonna fucking reimburse me for the bullets.


       —Novice Sausage Maker    Aug. 6 '06 - 03:26AM    #
  167. RE Post 249. I appreciate the invite but I think I got enough of the jist of your group’s position to know I’m not gonna be swayed in my opinion. Sure not coming out in front of someone’s house of worship as a counter-demonstrator on their Sabbath – I’d be just as a big a pain in the butt as the demonstrators. What’s to lose is my valuable time – you thankfully have your name as a link to the group’s site and 10 minutes there was enough for me to know I’m not going to get a thing out of hearing y’all in person, sorry to be harsh. Praying this day (as a lazy Catholic who missed Mass today) for y’all and the folks in Lebanon and Israel. All one schlub can do tonight from 10000 miles away.


       —Thomas Cook    Aug. 7 '06 - 12:44AM    #
  168. Look! There are 250+ comments here in a discussion about divestment from Israel. I consider this a perfectly valid topic of conversation on this site.

    Somebody’s been posting under the name “Divestment Platform”, though, and trying to steer all conversation to that topic. Sorry, that’s not a good use of this site.

    Dear Divestment Platform: speak your piece, but if you want a website entirely devoted to the topic of divestment, go start one.


       —Murph    Aug. 7 '06 - 09:30PM    #
  169. DP –

    All divestment comments are not being deleted. There are hundreds already on ArborUpdate. It’s not even true that they’re being deleted “from actual political campaign discussions”. If you want to make a charge of censorship, you may wish to employ factual information.

    What is true is that you will not be allowed to destroy a community resource. You and I both object to Israel indiscriminately bombing Lebanon. Additionally, I object to your indiscriminately bombing ArborUpdate with your comments, attempting to destroy all conversation except on your chosen topic, attempting to shock-n-awe the rest of the community into submission.

    Read that previous paragraph and think to yourself how disrespectful it is for me to twist your language and your cause to make my points.

    ArborUpdate is a place for a range of conversations. You’re not being censored – but nor are you being allowed to censor anybody else by disrupting their discussions. I repeat, if you want a site completely devoted to the issue of divestment, go build one.


       —Murph.    Aug. 7 '06 - 09:51PM    #
  170. “All divestment comments are now being deleted from ArborUpdate…”

    As Murph says, that’s not at all true.

    Also, a suggestion: if you would do the research to answer your questions (it shouldn’t take that long), and post the responses you got from the campaigns, I’m sure the comments reporting the results of your research would be welcomed.


       —Bruce Fields    Aug. 7 '06 - 10:25PM    #
  171. Divestment Platform:

    I do want to learn more about this issue so I would hope you can answer my below questions. Thanks.

    Every country in history has been born out of some kind of violence and displacement of people. Our own country as well was settled by people who ended up taking land away from Native Americans. Why do you feel Israel and Israel alone is the only “illegal” nation on earth?

    Most of the countries in the world have Christian majorities and Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia, Quater and the UAE have Muslim majorities. Why does having a Jewish majority in a country automatically make that country racist? If Israel is racist because of its Jewish majority, wouldn’t the others be guilty of racism because of their mono-religious majorities as well?

    Do you believe in a Palestinian State for Palestinian Arabs or a multiethnic state where Jews and Arabs live together in a democratic society? I know if it’s the latter, many Palestinian factions who are fighting for their own state might disagree with you.

    Thank you in advance for answering these questions so I can learn more about your platform and goals.


       —Jay    Aug. 7 '06 - 10:48PM    #
  172. Okay, so basically you refuse to answer my questions. You’re just a hateful phony really. You care not about divestment, investment or Palestinians/Lebanese, just about your own hate.

    Hey, your hate does not make “hate” right. It just adds more hate.

    It is a shame you refuse to answer my questions. All that does is take away your credibility.

    My opinion is you do not have the ability to answer my questions because you don’t know enough about the actual subject to give me an intelligent answer.

    With you on the side of divestment, it will never happen because you cannot be rational.

    I always find it sad when people’s talk ends up damaging the cause for which they are fighting so hard.

    Oh well.


       —Jay    Aug. 7 '06 - 11:15PM    #
  173. Okay, thanks for the article. I will read it. However, many countries has diplomatic ties to South Africa.

    Also, I need the Apartheid comparison explained to me further, please.

    I was in Israel and did not see any sign of what was Apartheid in SA. The Wall that separates Israel and the Palestinians is not the same as Apartheid, right? Because Palestinians, currently, do not live in Israel, they are in a separate territory partially occupied by Israel.

    SA controlled it’s non-white citizens. Within Israel, Arabs and Jews mix. That’s my confusion and I just need clarification.

    If I am going to support any sort of divestment opinion, I need to know the facts.

    Thanks again for sending the link to the article. I am reading it now.


       —Jay    Aug. 7 '06 - 11:28PM    #
  174. I take it that you have no opinion on the cruel and inhumane treatment of Palestinians by Lebanon, who pens them into concentration camps like animals, denies them all civil and social rights, and consigns generations of Palestinians to abject poverty by prohibiting them from joining the labor force.

    Your outspoken support for Lebanon would cause you shame if your avowed commitment to Palestinian rights were anything but a lie. It’s clear what you stand for, Jew-hater.


       —PoV    Aug. 8 '06 - 12:18AM    #
  175. Dear Divest Now,

    Thanks for answering my questions and for the article. I did read it.

    I agree. Two wrongs do not make a right. As I said, if I am going to support divestment from any group, I need to be fully educated and I know next to nothing (besides having been to Israel) about the politics behind this issue.

    My question is that many countries (now) are fighting bloody wars. Outside from the US and Israel, there’s Russia in Chechnya and then there are regimes like Iran and Saudi Arabia who horribly repress any non-Muslim in their countries.

    Is Ann Arbor invested in any of these places? I am not sure if we support Russian theatre troupes that might perform here. That I think would be considered investment, right?

    I think I support what you are saying. You don’t want tax money to go to countries that take away other people’s rights and because Israel has done this, we should divest. Okay I get that completely now.

    I also did some research on the Internet just before (which is why it took me a little longer to get back to you, sorry) and looked up US Military aid to countries. Yes, Israel seems to be the largest beneficiary of this aid. So, I get it. You don’t want your tax $ going to support Israel and her wars. OK. Thanks for clarifying that point.

    One question is that I also saw in my research that Egypt is also a very large beneficiary of US funding for their military. The Campaign for Human Rights (I have volunteered for them in the past) has sighted Egypt for human rights violations using their military. US tax $ goes to help fund the Egyptian military. So, I would think the same should apply to Egypt.

    I completely understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.

    A question I would ask that you answer (please) is how come the focus is only on Israel and not other oppressive and repressive regimes? Again, I am not saying at all that you should not support divestment from Israel. With what you are saying, you probably should support it.

    My only suspicion is why the focus is only on Israel and I want to make sure there is nothing else behind this like anti-Semitism. It just seems strange that your focus is not Israel and Iran or Israel and Russia or Israel and Saudi Arabia but only Israel.

    If you could please answer this question, this would help clear up some confusion for me.

    Thanks again…..


       —Jay    Aug. 8 '06 - 02:09AM    #
  176. Why didn’t you answer Jay’s questions? Why do you only demand divestment from Israel but not from other countries that have been show to be abusers of human rights?


       —John Q.    Aug. 8 '06 - 02:27AM    #
  177. Dear Divest Now,

    I did indicate in my post that I did not think at all it was okay for Israel to demolish the Middle East just because other’s do so. I do not believe that at all in the slightest. I said the opposite that I can see your position on divestment from Israel based on what you are saying.

    My question was why is Israel your particular focus? Egypt and Iran have done a lot of environmental damage, actually. I am a strict environmentalist and I can tell you infatically that Egypt and Saudi Arabia violate are major polluters of the environment.

    I will repeat: I am cool with you requesting divestment. Based on your research, divestment from Israel makes sense.

    I am concerned that we you will only focus on Israel and meanwhile Ann Arbor and other much larger cities and entities like UM will continue to invest in Russian and Iranian Theatre troupes (as an example) where money that we pay might go back to these countries that are also horribly repressive and have committed serious enviornmental damage.

    I am not fighting against you but with you. That said, please (please) answer my question (and please do not write like you are screaming at me because I am being polite in my posts and I am trying to understand here) why is the focus ONLY on divestment from one country (Israel) and not others?

    Thanks. I do appreciate the dialog because I feel as though I am learning something about the whole situation.


       —Jay    Aug. 8 '06 - 02:46AM    #
  178. “And just for the record, no one (with the exception of the US) has been as destructive to the Middle East as the racist State of Israel has been.”

    Oh yes. Look, look! Over there in Tel-Aviv, some Israeli guy got a job over an Arab guy! And over there! They make him stand in line for an hour at a checkpoint! This is clearly heinous compared to the genital mutilation, beheadings,rapes and lynchings seen elsewhere – prominently – in the middle east. Clearly, we need to boycott Israel for what the rest of the world has obviously cured – racism. Oh yes, let’s boycott Israel! There, the Jews are suspicious of their Arab neighbors, who have been trying to kill them for over 2,000 years! Clearly, CLEARLY, Israel is the most oppresive, brutal regime in the middle east. Ever.

    Jesus Blaine, get a life. Actually no – I’d rather you pour over your keyboard, fighting the good fight – so that you don’t have to embarrass yourself (and the Palestinians you ‘fight’ for)by stepping outside and causing mental retardation to spread like wildfire in Ann Arbor.


       —Meva    Aug. 8 '06 - 02:47AM    #
  179. I think I agree with Meva on this one.

    Israel as a country has far less human rights abuses and treats their population far better than let’s say Iran.

    Put it this way, if someone said to me you can live in only two countries in the world and that’s it: Iran or Israel. I would choose Israel and so would 99% of the people in the world.

    So…..until you admit that other countries are worse from a human rights standpoint, I cannot support you. Sorry.

    All I asked was that you answer my questions and you did not do that but Meva did. Thanks Meva.

    I still am open to listening so would love an answer to my question: Why focus only on Israel?

    Thank you.


       —Jay    Aug. 8 '06 - 03:40AM    #
  180. Obviously the focus of some people—don’t need to name any names—is only on attacking Israel because Israel is a Jewish state, the world’s only Jewish state in a sea of mostly Moslem nations, and it bothers the hell out of some people—we see them FLAMING repeatedly on this site—that one tiny, Jewish state exists; it has obviously always bothered them as I’ve heard them deny its legitimate right to exist right from the very beginning. It keeps them obsessed—well, actually, their own very disturbed minds sustain their fanatical fixation—24/7/365 that this single, tiny (almost microscopic when you look at a globe) Jewish nation exists and even thrives despite virulent attacks both verbal and very physical and absolutely incredibly violent since long before its inception.

    If there is one way that Israel has learned to fit in to this very volatile region called the Middle East, it is by adapting to the violence and aggression by which it is encircled and striking back hard in self-defense because if it loses even one war, there will be no Israel; this has not, of course, proved to be the case with any of its neighbors whom Israel has repeatedly had to vanquish in order to exist. Israel, despite its Western orientation, has had to become in many ways like its neighbors, in order to adapt to the region. In this way, the State of Israel is very much a part of the Middle East, not a very hospitable area on the whole.

    If these folks—the flamers on this site—have any “love” for Jews at all, it is when the latter are completely subjugated by others, in other words when Jews are meek and submissive and oppressed. They don’t like “uppity” Jews anymore than the slaveholders liked, or the KKK likes, “uppity” Blacks. In other words, they “like” Jews who know how to stay in their place (unless of course, if it’s to defend their enemies and join in dumping big-time on the Jewish State). Tell me with a straight face that this unique and obsessive focus on hating Israel is not driven by antisemitism. I’m not talking about criticism; no country is beyond criticism including Israel, but the hatred and bile directed at Israel and Zionism, the legitimate nationalist movement of the Jews, is unlike that directed at any other nation and group of people in the world. It contains deeply ingrained venom that is not unlike the screaming, pathological, genocidal racist hatred of the Nazis and their collaborators towards Jews.

    I’m sorry, but I do not think this is hyperbole, which is a lot more than you can say for the extremist rants directed every second against the world’s only sovereign Jewish land from many quarters. They would have you believe that the Jews in Israel and their supporters are racist Nazis when it’s really the many hate-filled Islamic fanatics—whom the JWPF so eagerly embrace—who rage on much more about the “evil, bloodthirsty” Jews than they do about Israel who have taken up the lethal cudgel of the Reich just as the Mufti of Jerusalem, a staunch ally of Hitler, did during the 1930s and 1940s. Judeophobia is a sickness, as contagious and deadly as almost any other incurable disease, and the JWPF has caught a really bad case.

    Fortunately, at least in Ann Arbor, most of us seem to be immune (so far).


       —Mike    Aug. 8 '06 - 05:10AM    #
  181. That is your answer? “Why not?” This is how you reason?

    Why not protest Lebanon’s viciously inhumane treatment of Palestinians?

    Your silence on Lebanon’s well-documented cruelty to Palestinians speaks volumes: it is because Lebanon is not a Jewish state.


       —PoV    Aug. 8 '06 - 01:50PM    #
  182. “In 2006, why NOT single out Israel, for its violent racism, which also requires it to expand by invading the West Bank, re-invading Gaza, re-invading Lebann up to the Litani River and beyond?

    In 2006, why NOT divest from such a savagely racist nuclear power as Israel?”

    The problem with your argument, asshat, is that Israel is NOLT occupying Lebanon, and will leave when they are done. You can’t even call the small Sheeba farms an “occupation,” because everyone in the world pretty much considers it either Syrian or Lebanese. Didn’t Israel give up Gaza? Aren’t they going to give up a lot of the West Bank?

    Your arguments are bunk, your logic is falliable, and your rhetoric is tired. Please, just go home. No one is listening to you anymore – nnot in Ann Arbor, not in front of Synagogues, and CERTAINLY not on the internet.

    You lose. Good day, sir.


       —Meva    Aug. 8 '06 - 02:04PM    #
  183. Guys, just ignore Blaine. His ridiculous one-liners and autocratic style of debate are just not worth your time.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 8 '06 - 04:25PM    #
  184. “In 1933, why NOT single out Nazi Germany, for its violent racism, which requird [sic] it to also expand by invading lots of places, and why NOT boycott it?”

    In 2006, obsessive sociopaths ape with gorilla-like precision the strategy of the Nazis from 1933-1935 who also stood in front of synagogues and other Jewish institutions with loud, loathsome, hate-powered antisemitic signs urging boycotts of Jewish businesses. Why not ostracize and isolate them? Oh, wait a second, they’ve isolated themselves and the community has ostracized them. But, still they don’t go away. Guess some people never learn the lessons of history, or maybe they just don’t want to.

    Talk about a stench rising ever upward, will ya’? I guess you must be wholly immune to your own effluence.


       —Mike    Aug. 8 '06 - 07:36PM    #
  185. Oops, I made a typo: I of course meant ”...from 1933-1945…” not “1933-1935.” Sorry for the error and any confusion this may have caused.

    But as most people who studied their history know, the sign carrying and boycotts escalated to far worse activities: large scale vandalism, looting, destruction, arson, beatings, murders, and I’m sure you know the rest. What begins with rhetoric and signs and boycotts can quickly degenerate into hate crimes, and it sometimes takes a lot less than slogans on confrontational placards to instigate such violence in the minds of reactive, irrational, violent types (the very recent shootings in the Seattle Jewish Federation building is just one example in which one woman was murdered and several others were critically wounded and still fighting for their lives in the hospital, one in the ICU with a bullet that was lodged in her spine).


       —Mike    Aug. 8 '06 - 07:50PM    #
  186. Here’s my comment: you are just a very sick individual and even if your litany of complaints and hatred toward Israel were reasonable ones, your so-called “peaceful” picketing of a synagogue is incendiary and resembles in form (screaming placards of hatred) and function (attack Jews as Jews) the “peaceful” “vigils” of the 1930s in front of Jewish institutions in a land called Germany.

    You are such an arrogant, aggressive, buffoonish jerk that you either cannot see how irrelevant your targeting a house of worship is to your miserable cause and how it has turned off many who might otherwise support (some little parts of) your quest. No matter how you slice it, you just can’t avoid that your pathological picketing of a Jewish house of worship is wide of the mark and absolutely counterproductive to anything you think you will accomplish 10,000 miles from here. When you go after Jews hiding behind the banner of your extreme hatred for Israel, you prove that you are nothing but a sick, cynical Judeophobe.

    And, all the sane people who check in here every once in a while are absolutely right that it does no good to argue with a twisted social deviant like you who is only good at disgorging slogans and hate. You want to always be right? You want to get the last word, incorrect as it will always be? Go ahead. I have real work to get back to. You have the luxury, I guess, in terms of time and resources to be able to spend every second of your waking life railing against only one people and one country. Like most working people, I don’t. It’s far too late for you to see that life is a lot more complicated than your narrow-minded monochromatic mind sees it. I don’t see how you can live with such a tortured brain, but that’s your problem, pal. I refuse to any longer make it mine.


       —Mike    Aug. 8 '06 - 09:13PM    #
  187. Four million people … by coincidence, there are four million Palestinian refugees registered with UNRWA. Four million people who are denied basic human rights and treated as less than human by the Arab nations in which they live.

    I don’t hear a word from the Jew-haters about the real misery of four million Palestinians refugees living in Arab nations.

    One million people … another coincidence: UNRWA estimates that one million Palestinians live in refugee camps. One million people who live in virtual concentration camps, forced by Arab nations to suffer endlessly, denied all human, civil, and social rights.

    I don’t hear a word from the Jew-haters about the endless suffering of one million Palestinians in refugee camps.

    And yet they claim the mantle of Palestinian rights as their own. Their cynicism and hypocrisy could not be more transparent.

    The Palestinians are mere pawns in their vicious program to attack and destroy Judaism wherever they find it, whether in the Middle East or the local synagogue.


       —PoV    Aug. 8 '06 - 10:12PM    #
  188. Actually I have to disagree with you Mr. “sicker than Israel.” Israel is actually winning this latest war. Even if the US forces a cease-fire now, Israel has still won. They have showed Hezbola that if they attack Israel, this is what will happen.

    No matter if you agree with the Israeli government or not, no matter if you think Israel is a legitimate state or not, they are stronger than all of their neighbors and essentially the world is on their side. They will win both militarily and ideologically.

    The Lebanese, Hezbola and Palestinians have one choice to end the fighting and that’s to accept the existence of Israel.

    The Palestinians and the Lebanese and the Hezbola forces can continue to fight but the outcome will always be lopsided from a casualty standpoint. It does not make sense to continue this useless fight against Israel when everyone knows how much stronger they are and will continue to get.

    I say End the Carnage now! Accept Israel and live always in peace and prosperity. In studying this conflict over the past few days, the answers are crystal clear. Israel is here to stay and the Palestinians have a great opportunity to make their lives better by just accepting this fact. It’s not so difficult really.

    Also, so you know I really was trying to learn something over the past couple of days on this blog. I was reading with a totally open mind and willing to listen to what you had to say about anything.

    Here are my takeaways from you:

    1) You keep posting the same thing each and every time.
    2) You really do not know anything about the conflict.
    3) You’ve probably never been to Israel or the Palestinian zones
    4) You hate Jewish people

    I remember a post I think you made a while ago when you said that no Israeli could have an Arab friend. That’s complete nonsense. You also said that Israelis confuse Druze (which you spelled Drooz) with Arabs and that’s also a total lie. Israelis are well aware of the difference between the Druze people and Arab people. I hung out with a group of Arabs and Jews when I was in Israel. Everyone got along well and in fact lots of those people went out to a club together something that would never have occurred in Apartheid South Africa: your convenient, constantly made comparison. Jews and Arabs in Israel are friends. Not all of them but friendships between Jews and Arabs exist throughout the country.

    Jews and Arabs for over a hundred years have lived very peacefully together in places like Haifa.

    So, my friend, the hate speech you are writing is based in complete untruth. You cannot bring people over to your side and expect people to vote for divestment and stop supporting Israel when you use lies in order to get people on your side.

    All you do is focus on Lebanon and say the same thing over and over because you listen to CNN and other networks and like a mindless robot regurgitate what you are fed from the mass media. You’ve never made an attempt to speak with the real people on the ground involved in this conflict on a day-to-day basis.

    There are two sides to every story. Most intelligent, rational people know that.

    You are completely delusional regarding this issue. You are unhealthfully obsessed with hatred for Jews. That’s really sad that you take all of your energy, all of your education, everything you received as a privileged member of our society and use it to hate Jewish people.

    I guess I cannot get into your mind to see what must have happened to make you into someone who doesn’t love, who cannot love, and only hate. It makes me very sad, honestly. Here I was trying to learn something from you and all you did was reprint the same thing over and over and spew out hateful words at me. That will never allow you to get any closer to your cause.

    Yes, I am fully confident after reading this blog for the last few days that the good people of Ann Arbor would never allow you to be their ambassador and even if some supported divestment, would end up voting in the opposite direction just to disassociate themselves from you.

    I hope one day you realize that blind hatred for other humans because of who they are does not lead one down the path of righteousness. I wish you a life of love and not hate, seriously, I do. To live life void of all love is tragic. To live life only for the sake of hate is equally as tragic (not to mention a huge waste of time).


       —Jay    Aug. 9 '06 - 12:42AM    #
  189. Can we call Blaine’s ISP and have his service disconnected for clogging the internet’s series of tubes (thanks ted stevens) with crap?


       —Meva    Aug. 9 '06 - 02:30AM    #
  190. I’m not talking about Israel’s “love”, I am talking about you. All you do is hate Jewish people. That is what’s sad. Your anger and hatred has nothing to do with Israel, it’s about you.

    Whenever someone who is so obsessively full of hate such as yourself spews anger and hatred toward someone or a group it has more to do with them then that group.

    I am sorry you feel so conflicted as a human and I am sorry you had such a sad childhood that you turned into a hateful human being.

    I am thankful I don’t view the world with hate but with hope.


       —Jay    Aug. 9 '06 - 03:03AM    #
  191. I never said I was the authority on love.

    In my opinion if you want to push for divestment, use the “you catch a lot more flies with honey” approach. Try not to be so offensive in your posts. Stick to the facts. Don’t use Nazi analogies. These are my suggestions.

    Your goal I would assume is bringing people into your camp who are either fence sitters or who really do not know much about the conflict. So, to do that you need to state true facts about the conflict and based on facts why we as a city/university should support divestment.

    Human Rights does not = hate. I think people get muddied messages when you focus only on Israel and let’s say don’t talk about horrible human rights abuses in Iran. I know you don’t mean to but to a novice it might come across as if you support certain Islamic countries human rights abuses but not Israel’s. While you condemn Israel and make your case for divestment, in my opinion, also state that you are aware of human rights abuses in other countries and that the city of Ann Arbor and the university should look into investments in those places as well.

    I think if you do that, you would be more likely to attain your goal or to at least get more people listening to you and into your camp (which needs to happen to win your battle).

    If divestment is your goal, you should be using tactics that will attain that goal. Just my opinion.


       —Jay    Aug. 9 '06 - 03:42AM    #
  192. FYI: Blaine is NOT a human rights activist.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 9 '06 - 04:55AM    #
  193. Hey, lets find out where all the different JWFP work and start protesting those places. Find out where they pray (if they do) and go protest there. I wonder if the can take what they dish out.


       —Just a Voice    Aug. 9 '06 - 02:01PM    #
  194. Arborupdate staff:

    Can you please shut down comments for this topic? 300+ comments and nothing has been said.

    Blaine et. al:

    If you would please provide the URL for your own blog(s) so that this wondrous discussion can continue there instead of here, that would be great.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 9 '06 - 06:19PM    #
  195. Censorship would be deleting comments. Shutting down comments just means people are tired of reading the same crap (and it is crap; anti-Zionists discussions, even though I disagree with them, can still be intelligent debates; what you do is simply stupid and juvenile).

    Basically, what you have is Blaine preaching and trying to control debate like a dictator, then you have some right-wing Zionists come in and call him an anti-semite. As much fun as this is (sarcasm), this isn’t debate. Sometimes you have to know when to bow out.

    So, I’m asking the Arborupdate staff to turn off comments for this thread. Or, if you’re not going to, at least tell me that you’re not. At least then I’ll know. Because Blaine and the people who are answering back to him are being just plain obnoxious.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 9 '06 - 07:25PM    #
  196. Antisemites just can’t take it, but they sure love to dish it out, don’t they? The person who tells everybody what to say, think, feel and the exact words they must use to say it, think it, and feel it, i.e., with his wild accusations that he tries to pawn off as truth, and who monopolizes every drop of air and cyberspace in and around Ann Arbor, complains with less justification than a little baby that his lies are getting choked off, just can’t take the heat in the kitchen. He just can’t admit that virtually everyone on this blog and even those for whose sacred cause he claims to champion, is absolutely sick of his ranting and know how pathetic and empty his life is.

    He cries that he is being “censored.” What hypocritical twaddle. He won’t let anyone get a word in edgewise, and unless they parrot everything he regurgitates like a Twilight Zone tape recorder, they have no right to take part in his one-sided conception of “debate.” He doesn’t have enough common sense to even realize how much harm he does to his own most beloved cause. The fact that he can go on doing this whether consciously or unknowingly proves that saving lives and defending human rights is not really his aim. No, my friends, hating and raving like lunatic is his mission in life, and no one gets his hatred and ire more stirred up than Zionists and Israelis and it goes without saying, Jews, and he has nothing but contempt for all of us rational, thinking beings who realize that that there is much more to the story than the man who lives in one dimension will tell you.

    (Oh, and Jared, one does not need to be right-wing or Zionist—nor does being a Zionist make one right wing—to realize that this fellow’s obsessive and singular hatred of Israel and his group’s use of the yes, Nazi tactic of demonstrating in front of synagogues with odious, screaming signs, on the Sabbath no less, are nothing less than manifest demonstrations of antisemitism. If you’d left out those generalizations, I would have gladly let you have the last word. But, let me get back to what we almost all—those of us who can actually reason—agree upon, please.)

    So, by all means, let him rant on like a mad dog that can’t stop barking. Let the rest of us go do something constructive. The rest of us, this writer included, must stop enabling him. Period. Unless we really enjoy arguing with a recording that is stuck in play mode. Soon enough we won’t hear his unintelligible barking, and won’t that feel good?


       —Little Pathetic Screaming Baby Man, Get a Life    Aug. 9 '06 - 07:45PM    #
  197. Blaine –

    The next time you get a ring at your door and see a flaming pile of dogshit, just know it’s frome me – with love.


       —Meva    Aug. 9 '06 - 11:04PM    #
  198. I have no problem keeping the thread open. Let the Jew-hating loonies prattle on about death rays from space.

    Their silence on the real misery inflicted on Palestinians by enslaving Arab states (especially Lebanon) proves their true agenda: kill the Jews.


       —PoV    Aug. 9 '06 - 11:14PM    #
  199. Leaving steaming dog crap on someone’s porch is by no means a “physical” threat. It would amount to nothing more than littering, or failing to clean up after your domestic animal…

    Much of what you are doing on this website…

    Strong words from a guy who scares the hell out of little kids every Saturday morning…


       —annarbor1us    Aug. 9 '06 - 11:31PM    #
  200. Blaine,

    Actually, I will be standing outside your door, protesting your illegal occupation of my airspace – directly after I light a bag of shit on fire and place it on your porch.

    I do not allow douchebags to illegaly occupy the fresh air in Ann Arbor.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Thousands of people are being tortured in AA by Blaines idiocy.

    Yet no one speaks.

    No One.

    Silenced by the terrorist-loving, Stalinist Blaine.

    What will YOU DO?

    ########################


       —Blaine is a racist polluter    Aug. 9 '06 - 11:37PM    #
  201. Meva

    Re: your last post to me with all the questions (#251) ...each one has an answer. So why don’t you call me on our challenge to meet with the vigillers (#249)? We will provide you with the answers you seek. Your choice: silence or meeting.

    Or, of course, you can call me more names.


       —Henry Herskovitz    Aug. 10 '06 - 01:36AM    #
  202. Hurl names at me all you want, lie and misinform about what I said (I never said, nor will I EVER say criticism of Israel was crap; I said Blaine’s incoherent rants are crap) all you want.

    The truth is discussion about the conflict is alive and well, not only on Arborupdate, but in The Michigan Daily and in Ann Arbor as well. I just suggested that it’s time to stop posting on this thread. Looks like some people didn’t read my column last week. Get the facts before you insanely rant.

    If you have something else to say/like to debate, please, post. But there is nothing that could be said that hasn’t already been said. That’s why I’ve suggested that this thread be closed. That’s all.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 10 '06 - 01:38AM    #
  203. Henry –

    Sorry, I do not converse with illegal occupiers of Ann Arbor airspace. Every time you breath, every time you fart, you take away what is rightfully mine – the fresh air of Ann Arbor, which you have corrupted and wasted, while the world watches.

    Everyone knows what you’re doing, you racist, oppressive, colonial protesters.

    Shame. SHAME!!


       —Meva    Aug. 10 '06 - 02:03AM    #
  204. Oh, just to be clear – I am completely fine with calling both of you pieces of shit names. Any name I want, really – because people like you live to be called names.

    You live for the attention, so I’m actually giving you something you want, AND I get to call you names. So we both win.

    In that vein, you are both complete douchebags. You are douchebags because you purposefully disseminate misinformation about the Jewish state. You are assholes because you disturb a place of worship. And finally, you are mentally handicapped because you don’t even realize that because both of you are Jewish, you are just as much a target of radical Islamic terror as anyone else. The sad part is, if G-d forbid something happened to you from an act of terror, you’d probably applaud it and blame Israel somehow.

    So, here’s to you Blaine Coleman and Henry Herskovitz – the biggest douche’s in the universe. I hope you watch south park to get the reference.

    Lastly – there are no physical threats of any kind being tlak about here. A flaming pile of shit is simply a flaming pile of shit. I can put it right next to your house, on the street. I can put hundreds of them there. I’m not disturbing you or your private property – just being a complete fucking asshole, just like the both of you when you protest outside a freaking synagogue.


       —Meva    Aug. 10 '06 - 02:17AM    #
  205. “Any person who wilfully or maliciously burns any dwelling house, either occupied or unoccupied”

    Ah yes, but what a about illegally occupied? You illegally occupy that house. None of those laws therefore apply to you!


       —Meva    Aug. 10 '06 - 09:46AM    #
  206. BTW you old harggard – I never threatened to set your house on fire. Just a bag of shit on a public street by your house. Go on imagining things, (like people are actually listening to you, for example) you mongoloid.


       —Meva    Aug. 10 '06 - 09:47AM    #
  207. Wait a minute.

    Is Meva correct? Blaine and Henry are both Jewish?

    Blaine & Henry: is this true?


       —todd    Aug. 10 '06 - 01:37PM    #
  208. Dear Blaine (or the one person with all the creative names, who ever you are),

    Take my advice; you need to get laid! If you don’t have a girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse or partner,(and obviously you don’t) please hire a professional, or go out & buy some sex toys. There’s a sex toy store on South U. You don’t have to feel embarassed about going there.
    I guarantee you’ll feel better & calm down, life won’t seem so difficult for you.
    You currently have a pretty unbalanced focus on life.
    All this stress you are putting on yourself isn’t healthy.
    And let me let you in on a little secret, Israel isn’t going away either, no matter how much you rant- your actions have no effect on Israel or the middle east, you know that only raises your blood pressure.

    Take care & be well
    XXXXX


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 01:51PM    #
  209. Todd,
    They claim to be Jewish but who knows,I was not invited to their brises. Perhaps the moyel cut off too much & they are angry.


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 01:54PM    #
  210. and don’t forget, this isn’t about Israel,
    it’s about assholes picketing a synagogue.


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 01:56PM    #
  211. I take their word that the leaders of Jewish Witnesses for Peace are Jewish.

    How pathetic—and truly sad—to see such self-loathing.

    The brutal reality is that in their irrational self-hatred, they not only terrorize children and parents on their way to worship, but stand up for Hezbollah, which is dedicated to their very destruction.

    Hezbollah—the Lebanese Party of God—has stated

    It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth.

    and is led by Hassan Nasrallah, a Lebanese Shiite, who has stated

    If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them world wide.

    and

    If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli.

    and

    Martyrdom operations – suicide bombings – should be exported outside Palestine. I encourage Palestinians to take suicide bombings worldwide. Don’t be shy about it.


       —PoV    Aug. 10 '06 - 02:35PM    #
  212. “Personal attacks and threats are futile. You are trying to stop a debate which you are now sure you are losing.”

    What debate?


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 10 '06 - 03:31PM    #
  213. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPAkc5CLgc&eurl=

    Here is a very good example of evidence of the media staging events, in german with sub-titles


       —See the Real Truth    Aug. 10 '06 - 04:07PM    #
  214. Your hatred for Jews blinds you to the real misery inflicted on Palestinians by Arab nations, especially Lebanon. As a member of the Lebanese government, Hezbollah is a party to this vicious oppression of Palestinians.

    In fact, you have not a word to say in the defense of Palestinian rights. You arrogantly preach the morality of the destruction of Judaism, yet your pathetic and simplistic rationalization of suicide bombings, whose purpose is to create terror by murdering innocents, proves that you have utterly lost your moral compass.


       —PoV    Aug. 10 '06 - 04:30PM    #
  215. Dear Blaine,
    You must have missed message #338.
    Please take my advice, you’ll feel so much better.
    love from Ann Arbor,
    XXXXX
    ;-)

    ps. they say you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, is that true?
       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 04:31PM    #
  216. “The debate is the same one you have kept out of the ‘Michigan Daily’ editorial pages for so very long . . .”

    Blaine, I’ve said it a million times. Can you read beyond a mere fourth grade level? The Daily opinion section only rarely covers international events. Trust me, there’s a lot we COULD say about a lot of international issues, not just the Arab-Israeli conflict. We keep it mostly local and state, and sometimes national as part of our policy.

    SO SHUT UP ALREADY ABOUT THE “DAILY” SILENCING THE ISSUE. I’m not going to write it anymore. The next time you say that, I’m going to come right out and call you a liar.

    “The debate your are trying to stifle.

    Debate on Israeli crimes against humanity and the environment and what to do to stop the genocidal state of Israel.”

    There is no debate. Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black? You’re stifling debate by making these outlandish and unanswerable declarations. You don’t answer anyone’s questions. And when things don’t go your way, you throw a fit. Seriously. GROW UP.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 10 '06 - 04:35PM    #
  217. Guys,
    Your postings are so inane & repetitous that- hard as it is to believe, it seems that even GWB has a bigger vocabulary than you!


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 04:40PM    #
  218. Guys,
    If you need a picture of Suha to get you in the mood, here’s one!
    http://www.glossynews.com/artman/uploads/suha-arafat-showing-titty.jpg


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 04:45PM    #
  219. Blaine –

    You are skirting the issue.

    Thousands of people are suffering in Ann Arbor, today – at the hands of injustice given to them by you and Henry.

    Where is the discussion on ArborUpdate about them?

    The innocent civillians terrorized by your blatant disregard for logic and understanding are numerous.

    A grave offense.

    But no one here on Arbor Update says anything about it.

    I wonder, Bruce, as the moderator of this forumn – what is your policy on Douchebags?


       —Meva    Aug. 10 '06 - 05:13PM    #
  220. You guys are terribly repressed if you think suggesting that you are so angry beacause you need to get laid is pornography!
    I guess it’s true.

    You think women should wear burkas?
    If your pals were running things, that’s what we’d be doing.

    XXXXX,
    ;-)


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 05:25PM    #
  221. You promise?
    :)


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 05:41PM    #
  222. liar liar pants on fire ,you posted!


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 05:49PM    #
  223. This is what Blaine the Insane sounds like:
    ¡ #$^^&₪ب&$∑@@ش@%$#€℅¥#Ω#NO¢*©**&£&**!¡¿!!!™

    This is what not looking at Arbor Update and not seeing his inane posts looks like:

    Get the point! Pure heaven.


       —Little Pathetic Screaming Baby Man, Get a Life    Aug. 10 '06 - 06:23PM    #
  224. Fine. Do what you want. I’m done. I’m spent. Blaine, you’re a ridiculous hypocrite with meglomanical fantasies. You need to grow up, get educated, and learn to communicate like a normal human being.

    Write your banter as much as you want. I won’t respond. I’ll be too busy laughing at YOU and no one else.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 10 '06 - 07:06PM    #
  225. “What will your policy be, when students submit columns demanding divestment from Israel, to the ‘Michigan Daily’?

    Will you vote against the editors taking a stand on divesting from Israel, now that it’s been a U-M campus issue for ovr 5 years?”

    They’re called editors. Doesn’t matter who submits what: the editorial board can’t “vote” on that. Editors decide what to put in. And yes, they do put in viewpoints from people on either side of the debate of the Arab-Israeli conflict.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 10 '06 - 07:33PM    #
  226. How ‘bout starting your own paper, Blaine?


       —Young OWSider    Aug. 10 '06 - 08:00PM    #
  227. Dear Mr. Palestine,

    Wow- now you’ve convinced me, you really are nuts!
    I guess you’ve accomplished something!
    ;-)

    “Do you have any statistics, for example, in the last 5 years how many times the word Palestine or Palestinian, etc, appears in the Daily”


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 08:13PM    #
  228. The real question is- Do you have any statistics, for example, in the last 5 years how many times the word Henry or Blaine, etc, appears in arborupdate.com?

    How many times have you tried to hijack a thread in arborupdate.com for your egomaniacal reasons?

    :-)
    XXXXX


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 08:33PM    #
  229. “Do you have any statistics, for example, in the last 5 years how many times the word Palestine or Palestinian, etc, appears in the Daily? And how does that compare to appearance of the word Israel in the Daily? . . .

    You have had 4 years to collect such data. If you have not, I urge you to do it now and provide us with the results.”

    Nope, no statistics. You want statistics? Go up to the Bentley Library and search through them yourself. Besides, as I ALREADY TOLD YOU, I’m on opinion, not news. I’m NOT an editor. I have no say as to what makes it onto the edit page. I only speak from own recollection (and I read the Daily nearly every day during the year).

    Personally, I think you’re just pulling this “The Michigan Daily never mentions divestment” crap to draw attention to yourself. If you actually read the Daily, you’ll see the conflict gets plenty of attention.

    “How long since the ‘Daily’ allowed a single Viewpoint column that actually called for immediate divestment from Israel?

    Would you allow it?

    Would you allow anyone to call Israel an ‘Apartheid State’, in the ‘Michigan Daily’, even in an editorial?”

    1. Several times a year. Search through the archives. You’ll find something.

    2. I don’t care if people want to call for divestment. Just because I disagree doesn’t mean I don’t want to hear what they have to say. See, unlike you, I am able to listen to people with opposing argument and debate them like a rational human being.

    3. Again, I’m not an editor. Even if I were, I still wouldn’t care if people wanted to call Israel anything they wanted. Unlike you, I value other people’s opinions. As for the unsigned editorials that represent the Daily’s editorial opinion (representative of the editorial board, the pieces in the gray boxes on the leftside of the page), the Daily tends to stay away from international issues, LIKE I REPEATEDLY HAVE SAID. Calling Israel an apartheid state would be an international issue. Ergo, it probably wouldn’t come up.

    “Unless you convince Jared to censor divestment talk out of the ‘Daily’.

    And Jared sounds like he could be very easily convinced to do just that.

    There is nothing worse than a censor who tells himself, and the world, how fair he is to ‘both sides’ (and never lets any authentic editorial voice be heard for Palestine and its occupied people).”

    Don’t slander me. You want to take a poll about who the real censors are, Blaine? No one here likes you or your unintelligent babble. People like to read and discuss rational voices on both Israel and Palestine. You’re not a rational voice.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 10 '06 - 08:39PM    #
  230. Jared,
    here’s a translation-me thinks this is what Mr. Palestine means:
    Since you are Jewish, you control- everything even the Daily!
    Mr Palestine is buying into a classic antisemitic canard!


       —get a life, guys!    Aug. 10 '06 - 08:44PM    #
  231. When are you going to answer our question-
    Do you have any statistics, for example, in the last 5 years how many times the word Henry or Blaine, etc, appears in arborupdate.com?

    How many times have you tried to hijack a thread in arborupdate.com for your egomaniacal reasons?

    We out here hold you responsible for questions on this blog.
    Who’s this “we out here”?
    Mr Palestine ?


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 10 '06 - 08:49PM    #
  232. Mr. Palestine,
    Maybe Jared has better things to do- you obviously don’t.


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 10 '06 - 08:52PM    #
  233. Mr Palestine,
    Have you ever thought about a career as a spammer, you seem to have a real knack for it and no social skills!


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 10 '06 - 08:53PM    #
  234. Mr. Daily Statistics,
    What gives you the right to order Jared around?

    When are you going to answer our question-
    Do you have any statistics, for example, in the last 5 years how many times the word Henry or Blaine, etc, appears in arborupdate.com?

    How many times have you tried to hijack a thread in arborupdate.com for your egomaniacal reasons?


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 10 '06 - 09:00PM    #
  235. “Your response is very hostile.”

    No, it’s just frustrated.

    “I don’t see why you feel that way.”

    Then you’re pretty stupid. I feel frustrated because you slander me and call me a censor. I’ve asked you to read through my responses and answer me like an intelligent human being. You have not, and most people here would agree you are not.

    “We out here hold you responsible for questions on this blog. Shrugging your shoulders or telling us to do the research on our own is bizarre at best.”

    Why? I never claimed to have any such “statistics.” Just because you “demand” them doesn’t mean they exist locked up in the vault somewhere. Besides, it is you making the claim that the Daily never mentions Palestine when in the previous two weekly editions there was at least two mentions on the opinion page EACH.

    I stand by my claim. Here’s what I want you to answer: given how wrong you are with your claims about the Daily, will you admit that you’re just pulling this out of your ass in order to draw attention to yourself?

    “And I never said that ‘The Michigan Daily never mentions divestment’. I only want to know how many times in the past 4 years it has mentioned divestment from Israel campaign?”

    If you concede that the Daily does mention it and rather frequently, then I’ll answer that it mentions it whenever it comes up. That’s the best I have for you. No one has made the statistics you desire. If you want to know how many times the Daily has ACTUALLY, in terms of number of articles, mentioned divestment, like I said, you’re going to have to do that research yourself. The rest of us work to pay our rent.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 10 '06 - 09:04PM    #
  236. “All I am saying is that since the Daily is the target of so much attack and these attacks all have to do with the Daily’s treatment of issues related to Palestine and Divestment from Israel . . .”

    No, it’s not. People don’t really “attack” the Daily for its coverage on the Arab-Israel conflict. Either you’re mistaken or you’re being deceptive.

    “It should not take so much effort to do such a study. In fact I can make an undergraduate project and have the information for you in a semester.”

    By all means, be my guest.

    “Let us see the stats!”

    There. Are. No. Stats.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 10 '06 - 09:55PM    #
  237. For lack of a better place to announce it, I’ll be fasting again tomorrow as part of the Troops Home Fast.

    I encourage others to take part and take action in whatever form you can.


       —Steve Bean/Troops Home Fast    Aug. 10 '06 - 10:09PM    #
  238. I think we should start a new string entitled “Invest Now.” It can be started right here on this blog. Anyone who believes in Israel’s right to exist in peace and security can post their reasoning as to why we should be “INVESTING” in a country like Israel and not “DIVESTING.” Let’s not let the tiny little anti-Israel community take over this blog. Create your own string and tell the community why we as a university, as a city and as a nation should be investing in Israel especially now.

    I’ll start with three reasons:

    1) We should invest in Israel because it is the most tolerant country in the Middle East.

    2) We should invest in Israel because we believe in equal rights for women.

    3) We should invest in Israel because we believe in equal rights for gays, lesbians and transgendered people and that gays should be permitted to serve openly in any military should they so choose.

    I can come up with a lot more. Let’s start the string and see how many we can come up with and try to ignore Blaine/Henry/et al for as long as possible. Let’s have our investment discussion.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 10 '06 - 11:30PM    #
  239. Okay, that’s a great idea. I can come up with three more:

    1) Invest in Israel because we need balance in this world.

    2) Invest in Israel because women should not be forced to wear Burkes in public.

    3) Invest in Israel because of all of the technological advances they’ve made in a tiny little country in such a short period time while under constant attack.

    I can come up with a lot more. Let’s hear from some others. I also like the idea of ignoring the anti-Israel brigade on this blog for a while in order to create our own forum.

    Zionists United!

    Invest Now!!


       —Jason    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:00AM    #
  240. Good ones Jason. Thank you. Let’s hear from other folks who want to show the anti-Israel contingent on this blog that they are not the only ones who vote, influence public policy or write on this blog.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:03AM    #
  241. Remember, stay focused. Don’t respond to the anti-Israel posts. They have nothing useful to say. Just write three (or more) reasons why you think we should invest in the Israel. Let’s just have a discussion amongst ourselves for a change.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:18AM    #
  242. I love this idea! Cool. Okay, I have three:

    1) Invest in Israel because you feel Arabs should have a place to go where they are free to be who they are unlike in the rest of the Arab world.

    2) Invest in Israel because of the wonderful strides they’ve made in spinal injury rejuvenation Christopher Reeve visited Israel and gave them kudos for this. Gee, I wonder how far Iran has come with this one. LOL

    3) Invest in Israel because if you believe in Freedom of Religion. Israel allows access for every religion to worship how they want and when they want. Prior to 1967, when the old city of Jerusalem was under Jordanian control, Jews were not allowed access to their holiest of places, the Western Wall of Solomon’s Temple. There is virtually no freedom of religion in the Arab World.

    Invest Now!


       —Jay    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:28AM    #
  243. Great Jay. Good reasons and great points to be remembered. Thank you!!

    Okay, people, I think you’ve got the hang of this now. Let’s show these anti-Israel posters that they are not the only ones on this blog!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:31AM    #
  244. 1) Invest in Israel because they’ve proven that democracy and freedom can reign in the Middle East.

    2) Invest in Israel because of the advancement in irrigation techniques that can save the world millions.

    3) Invest in Israel for being a leader in the use of alternative energies like solar power.


       —NYC    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:07AM    #
  245. NYC good! And great to see a new poster (at least I think you are new LOL). Let’s try and end each posting with “Invest Now”! and then whatever your name is. We are all staying focused, ignoring the clutter and this is good. Great job so far. Keep these reasons for investing coming! These are all great points. Three is a great number but feel free to post more than three at a time.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:11AM    #
  246. Okay, I have three more:

    1) Invest in Israel because you celebrate diversity. Arabs, Jews and Christians essentially live peacefully side-by-side. Wonder what the Jewish community in Iran (25,000 strong) would have to say if there were actually freedom of speech allowed in Iran which brings me to my next reason…...

    2) Invest in Israel because you respect freedom of speech. No where else in the Middle East are you free to speak out against the government. Imagine having an anti-Islamic rally in the heart of Tehran? Gee, would not want to be the organizer of that one answering questions from Iranian authorities. In Tel Aviv, hundreds of anti-way protesters clogged the streets of Tel Aviv today. They are protesting against their government without repercussion.

    3) Invest in Israel because you believe in and respect freedom of the press. I mean how do you think all of these pictures and press reports get out of the West Bank and Gaza and onto CNN? Israel allows free, unfettered access for the media. No other country is the Middle East allows this.

    Invest Now!


       —Jay    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:23AM    #
  247. Wow, Jay, you’re amazing. Those are excellent points. Nice work. Although it does not take much work to come up with why we should INVEST in a country like Israel given that they’re neighbors are so ruthless, right? LOL. Oh, and by the way, I assume you meant an “anti-war” protest in Tel Aviv, not an “anti-way” protest. LOL. Those letters are close in the keyboard.

    Okay, I cannot believe it’s only Jay, Jason, NYC and myself that can come up with reasons to INVEST NOW in the beautiful State of Israel. I know you’re out there! Let’s discuss Investment!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:29AM    #
  248. Okay, I must add another three:

    1) Invest in Israel because they have the best record in the Middle East (and one of the best worldwide) on the prevention of cruelty to animals.

    2) Invest in Israel because vegetarians are respected in Israel and not treated like freaks of nature!

    3) Invest in Israel because it has one of the most liberal supreme courts in the world.

    4) Invest in Israel because you believe that our way of life is threatened by fundamentalists that really want to take away all of our rights. Check on the human and equal rights records in Iran and Saudi Arabia. It’s not pretty. If radical Islam spreads, nobody will have any rights at all. That’s not a good scenario for the world.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:41AM    #
  249. oops! I added 4! It’s just so easy. Okay, let’s hear from others.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:42AM    #
  250. I’ll join in!

    1) INVEST IN ISRAEL because Israel is a world leader in promoting arts and culture.

    2) INVEST IN ISRAEL because, like Warren Buffet, you think investments in Israel will increase in value. (See Friedman’s column in today’s NYT.)

    3) INVEST IN ISRAEL because it gives a good reason to visit one of the most beautiful places in the world and to watch your INVESTMENT grow!


       —Another wise INVESTOR    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:24AM    #
  251. “Thanks Jared. I will have a student set up a study and investigate reporting of the Daily on Palestine Israel and the Divest from Israel issues. There are many people who would be interested in such statistics.

    The Daily would then have to publish it.”

    Good luck with that.

    “We will look for occurrence of works and # of articles addressing the issue of divestment from Israel since the campaign started in 2001.”

    Keep in mind that divestment is not necessarily something that is pushed 100% of the time. When it is pushed, it does get coverage (i.e. the MSA meeting to discuss forming a committee in March 2005; that was front page). Don’t assume because it is not mentioned everyday that the Daily is silencing the issue.

    You might also, as a control, count how many times Israel is mentioned but NOT in terms of the conflict. And then compare that to coverage of Palestine and/or divestment. Unless you do a lot of statistical analyses, the study won’t be viewed with much legitimacy.

    I have pro-Israel friends who say the Daily is consistently anti-Israel, in that divestment stuff and/or anti-Israel stuff is mentioned without a publishing of a pro-Israel piece (on the opinion page) to counter it. You might want to interview these type of people to further examine the issue. Just a thought.

    “Thanks again and please do not be so angry.”

    I’m not. Please read what I post instead of being so reactionary.

    “Lebanese and Palestinians should be angry because they are being bombed and their infrastructure is being destroyed.”

    You’re right; but the case for Israelis (ordinary citizens, not the government or the military) to be angry could also be made. Just more food for thought.

    “All you are getting is a few posts from people of conscience.”

    Don’t try to slide your views into the broad category of “people of conscience.” Again, the other side says the same thing.

    The true people of conscience are the people who come together, not those who drive others apart.

    “Not enough to get pissed off at.”

    You deal with Blaine. Then we’ll see who should be pissed off.

    “You will loss more friends that way.”

    Ditto to you.


       —Jared Goldberg    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:36AM    #
  252. Another wise Investor: Awesome! Good ones. I think there are more out there who can come up with at least three reasons. I am about to sign off the for the evening but let’s see if we can turn this into something big (and share facts with people at the same time).

    Looking forward to continuing the discussions amongst the Invest Now! group tomorrow.

    Have a great night!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:50AM    #
  253. Attention all INVESTORS!

    We’ve seen all of the anti-Israel posts. We know know their opinion. It’s time to use our time effectively and engage in discussion amongst ourselves!

    This is why I’ve started an Invest Now! string. If you see some of the above posts, we’ve gotten some good reasons why we should all INVEST in Israel now.

    Here are the basics:

    Please try and come up with at least three (3) reasons why we as a city/country should be INVESTING in Israel now.

    Please try and ignore all anti-Israel postings. Not because some of them don’t need responding to but because we’ve read, we’ve responded, we know for what they stand. Now it’s OUR turn! Let’s have discussion about why we think Israel is the best investment now and for the future of the Middle East and the world.

    We’ll call this the INVESTMENT CHALLENGE.

    So….what are you waiting for? Take the INVESTMENT CHALLENGE today!

    Thanks to you all and have a great evening.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:02AM    #
  254. I’ll join in!

    1) Invest in [South Africa] because [South Africa] is a world leader in promoting arts and culture.

    2) Invest in [South Africa] because, like Warren Buffet, you think investments in [South Africa] will increase in value.

    3) Invest in [South Africa] because it gives a good reason to visit one of the most beautiful places in the world and to watch your INVESTMENT grow!


       —'80s wise investor    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:06AM    #
  255. I’ve been reading this blog for a while and finally see something worth while responding to. I am a firm believer in equal rights to all and stand up for gay rights because being antigay is the last acceptable form of open discrimination in the USA.

    Because of that, here are my 3 reasons why we should invest in Israel:

    1) Invest in Israel because El Al, the Israeli national airline is the only airline with HQ in the Middle East to recognize rights of gay and lesbian domestic partners of airline employees.

    2) Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, both major Israeli cities, are the only cities in the Middle East ever to hold gay pride events and parades.

    3) Israel is the only country in the Middle East with extensive programs for people living with HIV/AIDS and with an advanced educational program for the prevention of HIV and is the ONLY country in the Middle East to devote significant dollars towards research for an HIV cure.

    Okay, here’s a 4th!

    4) Invest in Israel because in Israel gay Arabs can live free from institutional discrimination and have a chance at living a normal life in an accepting and open society. No place else in the Arab world could an Arab express their sexual orientation without fear of horrible repercussions.

    For all these reasons and so many more….I say INVEST in the State of Israel.

    Thanks for letting me comment.


       —Gay Rights Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:15AM    #
  256. Okay, this will be my last post of the evening….it’s way past my bedtime! However, I wanted to thank “Gay Rights Now”! for taking the INVESTING challenge!

    You brought up such important points about Israel. Congrats on that and let’s keep ‘em comin’!

    Goodnight all (really this time). :-)


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:20AM    #
  257. Wow. There’s been quite a few postings from our newly formed group. Great.

    Okay, here’s more reasons to invest in Israel:

    1) INVEST IN ISRAEL because Israeli Arabs and Muslims have the right to vote and to hold public office, like every other Israeli citizen. Nearly one-10th of the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, is Arab; there is a mosque in the Knesset building for those who are Muslim. One of the justices of Israel’s Supreme Court is an Arab; so is a minister in the govt. cabinet. Arabs are active in Israeli commerce, media, education, and law. This is unlike the way Jews are treated in Muslim Majority countries.

    2) INVEST IN ISRAEL because of pluralism. Will you ever see a non-Muslim in Mecca? Don’t think so. They are not allowed (can someone say, uh, exclusion)??? Yet Muslims are permitted anywhere in the State of Israel and anyplace else in the world for that matter but the religious capital of the Muslim world is off-limits to non-Muslims. Yet in Jerusalem, Muslims have access to their holy sites. And which people discriminate again???? Hmmmmm.

    3) INVEST IN ISRAEL because people there aren’t asked their religious beliefs prior to entering into a hotel whereas various hotels in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (that bastion of tolerance and religious pluralism) actually BANS non-Muslims from certain hotels. Hmmmm…..and people say Israel discriminates. Okay, whatever. The proof is the in the facts.

    I say: INVEST IN ISRAEL NOW!


       —Equality for ALL    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:18AM    #
  258. Okay I have three more reasons to INVEST in Israel. This was a good idea by the way to start this string.

    1) Invest in Israel because millions of people during WW2 had no place in which to escape because nobody wanted them. Israel in 1948 took Jewish refugees in from all over. Invest in Israel.

    2) Invest in Israel because what other country in that region really made the desert bloom like they have? The technology in Israel is incredible especially because of the severe drought situation which is almost always prevalent. Invest in Israel.

    3) Invest in Israel because they have some of the most progressive laws in the world when it comes to women’s rights, sexual harassment in the workplace, gay rights and equal opportunity for university education. Invest in Israel.

    Because of the above and so much more. INVEST IN ISRAEL.

    Invest now!


       —Jason    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:06PM    #
  259. Oh, one more thing (even though I am breaking the “three reason” rule.

    Invest in Israel because of what “About.com” says about Israel with regards to Women’s Rights:

    The below is from About.com with regards to women’s rights in Israel:

    The Rights of Women: Israel is by and large one of the most progressive nations on Earth with regards to gender equality. Israel co-founder Golda Meir became one of the first female heads of state when she was elected prime minister in 1969, and women frequently serve at high levels in both military and civilian life.

    Invest Now!


       —Jason    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:14PM    #
  260. Hey Jason!

    Good ones and thanks again.

    Okay, because of our great response I will add some more.

    1) Invest in Israel because In the late 1950’s, Israel, a small and still developing country, made it a policy to share its developmental experience, including the field of public health, with other developing nations in Asia, Africa and Latin America. This progressive kind of mentality exists in Israel today and Israel is still sharing its advancement in medicine with people all pver the world.

    2) Invest in Israel because Israel gives back to the world. MASHAV – the Center for International Cooperation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Professionals from every continent, especially the developing world, receive training from MASHAV to enable them to deal more effectively with public health problems in their own countries.

    3) Invest in Israel because they share their experiences with the world. One shining example of this sharing is: an Israeli delegation to the island of Zanzibar off the eastern coast of Africa which was able to draw from Israel’s experience of draining the Hula swamp (formerly infested with malaria-carrying mosquitoes); and experts who set up community health services for nomads in Eritrea, replicating the type of services designed for the Bedouin in Israel’s Negev desert.

    Israel is one of the most progressive nations on earth.

    Let’s not allow Islamic Fundamentalists ruin the future of the Middle East and take away basic human rights.

    Invest in Israel today!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:33PM    #
  261. I have more reasons to INVEST in Israel:

    1) Invest in Israel because Israel produces by far the highest rate in the world of scientific papers per capita (109 per 10,000 people).

    2) Invest in Israel because roughly twenty-five per cent of Israel’s workforce holds university degrees—ranking third in the industrialized world; more than 10 per cent hold advanced degrees.

    3)Invest in Israel because Israel has the highest rate, per capita, of university degrees in the world.

    4) Invest in Israel because Israel has the highest rate, per capita, of museums in the world.

    5) Invest in Israel because Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce.

    6) Invest in Israel because Israel has the second highest rate in the world per capita of new books published.

    7) Invest in Israel because considering its population vis-a-vis the rest of the world and in existence only since 1948, Israel has produced eight Nobel laureates.

    Invest in Israel now!

    Divest in Palestinian and Islamic terror which threatens to destroy all of the above accomplishments!


       —NYC    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:45PM    #
  262. NYC! You’re amazing! SEVEN reasons (and good ones too!!) Maybe we should up the Investing challenge! There are just so many reasons to INVEST in Israel now that we could go on forever. Those are wonderful facts about why we all should be investing in Israel. Thanks NYC!

    I remind any new poster to our “INVEST NOW” string:

    1) Please come up with at least three reasons why personally you think we should be INVESTING in Israel.

    2) Remain focussed: Ignore the anti-Israel posters. They have nothing useful to say – plus: we’ve seen it all already, we’ve responded already. Let’s have a real discussion amongst ourselves about why we should all INVEST in the State of Israel.

    I look forward to reading your INVEST posts throughout the day.

    Remember, only one ground rule even though I know it’s tempting: No response to anti-Israel posters in relation to this string. Thanks!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:52PM    #
  263. Hey Mr. Palestine,

    Thought you’d be interested in this story:
    Peace activist murdered by Palestinian

    Angelo Frammartino, a 24 year-old Italian student, planned to set up summer camp for Palestinians; He was attacked and murdered by Arab knifeman

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3289726,00.html


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 01:59PM    #
  264. Mr Palestine,
    I’m sorry I said in post #338 that you need to get laid. It’s better you not do that- even though you’ll stay in your angry, confused, horny state. We don’t need you polluting the gene pool.
    You’d have some mighty crazy young’uns.
    :-)
    XXXXX


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:03PM    #
  265. Even though I am critical of Israel’s invasion of Lebanon because of civilian casualties (not Hezbola, innocents) and I am not really an Israel supporter, I must respond to your comparison of Dr. Mengele and the medical community inside Israel. That is a blatant lie. The medical community inside Israel does not perform medical experiments on human beings, whether they are Palestinian, Arab or Muslim. That is a baseless, blatant lie. I am ALL FOR criticism of Israel for its current actions but to compare their medical establishments to the barbarity of the Nazi Germany is absurd and should have no place in the debate on this issue.

    You come across as a desperate, horrible human being when you say things like that. Furthermore, you hurt my chances at getting across to folks that we should be critical of Israel’s (as well as our own governmental policies) throughout the world. How am I supposed to get my message out about Israel when you post lies and completely discredit those fighting with you?

    If you are going to write against Israel, great, but please stick to the absolute facts or don’t bother writing and hurting the Palestinian/Lebanese cause.

    Thank you.


       —Kenny    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:43PM    #
  266. Dear Mr. Ann Arbor Taliban,

    How come you can call me names- I’ve witnessed you yelling “You are a zionist racist murderer” at me, children, elderly people and others attending local events
    but if I say anything about you, no matter how true, it’s not allowed.

    We don’t harrass you at your place of worship.

    You are not worth another nanosecond of my time.
    A flaming pile of dogshit would be better company than you.


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 02:53PM    #
  267. Dear ArbourUpdate head honchos, I would like to ask if we can get IP addresses of posters added to the post. That way we can keep track of who the different anonomyous posters are. I use two different IP address to access A.U., but always use the same handle. It would be nice to seperate the different posters who keeep rotating their handles so that there can be a more coherent dialog


       —Just a Voice    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:18PM    #
  268. JAV,
    It’s only 2 people & almost 500 posts- Blaine & Henry.
    What a force to behold!


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:31PM    #
  269. maybe poster # 449 is Archie Bunker?
    didn’t he call Michael Stivic
    meat head all the time?
    or maybe it has something to do with Lebanon bologna?


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:34PM    #
  270. Prohibitively High Rocket-Fuel Prices Bring Mideast Crisis To Standstill

    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/51351

    BEIRUT, LEBANON—As the cost of rocket fuel soared to $630 per gallon Monday, Middle Easterners who depend on the non-renewable propellant to power 10-kilogram rockets have been forced to severely restrict their daily bombing routines, bringing this latest round of fighting to an unexpected halt.
    Enlarge Image

    Frustrated Hezbollah fighters face astronomical rocket-fuel prices at the pump.

    “The way things are going, I won’t have any money left over for other necessities, such as anti-aircraft missiles, land mines, and machine guns,” said Hezbollah guerrilla Mahmoud Hamoui, who is just one of hundreds of Islamic militants compelled to scale back their killing until rocket-fuel prices return to their pre-2006 levels.

    ;-)


       —This is funny    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:48PM    #
  271. “Is this significantly different than what Nazis did to Jews?”

    Yeah. Unless you want to simply claim that every murder is the same as the Nazis, which is kinda reductum ad absurdia.

    I’ll bring up the IP address thing to the rest of the AU folks, JAV. Also note that this site IS NOT for a freeform discussion of all of the evils of Israel. I have no problem deleting stuff, and neither does Murph.


       —js    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:48PM    #
  272. Re posts: #457 & #454
    Are you really having a public conversation with yourself?
    That’s nuts!


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:53PM    #
  273. Mangelas?

    Marathi-State language of Maharashtra. Spoken by the Mangelas as first language.

    Again, you make even less sense than a pile of flaming dogshit.


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 03:57PM    #
  274. JS,
    the funny thing is if you look at their blog-
    juden raus
    oops I mean “zionists out”
    you’ll see this:

    “Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.”

    in other words thay can dish it out but they can’t take it.
    I really appreciate arborupdate & reading posts about items of LOCAL interest.


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:06PM    #
  275. “Dear ArbourUpdate head honchos, I would like to ask if we can get IP addresses of posters added to the post. That way we can keep track of who the different anonomyous posters are. I use two different IP address to access A.U., but always use the same handle. It would be nice to seperate the different posters who keeep rotating their handles so that there can be a more coherent dialog”

    IP addresses would help in much fewer cases than you’d expect. Requiring accounts might help, but that’s a big change.

    I’m sympathetic to requests to delete stuff, but I’d like to warn people first, so everyone understands the rules. I recognize that there are a few people here trying to have a useful conversation amidst all the jeering, and I’d welcome ideas as to how to help them do that.

    Anyway, for now this is just a request: the “Name” field is meant to be a name, not a headline, or something else that changes every time you post. Anonymous handles are fine, just try to pick one and stick to it most of the time.


       —Bruce Fields    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:11PM    #
  276. Okay, thanks Bruce. I have an idea:

    No more articles like the one posted above entitled “Israel’s Ethnic Bomb”. This should be deleted because it takes up space and prevents people from working in the spirit of this blog which is supposed to be meaningful discussion.

    I would say the same if someone posted a pro-Israel article as well. No more article postings on the site. They should be automatically deleted.

    Thank you.


       —Jason    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:21PM    #
  277. 1) Invest in Israel, the country that rescued over 40,000 Beta Israel, virtually the entire population of Ethiopian Jews, in the 1990s, saving them from desperate conditions, oppression, and prejudice and assimilating them into Israeli society, where they are productive members of a modern, thriving democracy and an integral part of the rainbow known as the people of Israel.

    2) Invest in Israel because it benefits all beings and all things positive and life-affirming in the area and benefits everyone in the world except hatemongers and antisemites, of course, and that alone is another important reason to invest in Israel because it thwarts the plans of the fascists trying to impose their narrow Dark Age beliefs and way of life on the whole world through brutal, barbaric force. Invest in Israel to help keep us all moving forward and not back to the seventh century.

    3) One of the great experiments in communal living is the Israeli kibbutz, which is the most successful of such social systems in the world and the closest thing to the true vision of what democratic socialism was meant to be. Invest in the country where this bold experiment really came to life.

    4) Invest in Israel and listen to another reason why from President Bill Clinton who describes the incredible opportunity for a true and lasting peace and a Palestinian state that was rejected: “The true story of the peace talks at Camp David in July 2000 was that for the first time in the history of the conflict an American president put on the table a proposal, based on UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, very close to the Palestinian demands, and Arafat refused even to accept it as a basis for negotiations, walked out of the room, and deliberately turned to terrorism. That’s the real story; all the rest is gossip.” Invest in the only country in the Middle East that really longs for, strives for, and fights for peace: Israel. Invest in peace and a bright future for Arabs and Jews: invest in Israel.

    5) While the European Union is Iran’s largest trading partner—now Iran, there’s a truly outlaw, neo-Nazi, fascist, homophobic, misogynist, antisemitic, theocratic, racist, repressive state whose name in Farsi means Aryan (goes back to when they were a hotbed of pro-Nazi activity before and during WWII) and from which all decent people should divest—people could hardly do worse than investing in a democratic, multicultural, multiethnic, diverse, freedom- and peace-loving, and life-affirming country, really the only place like it in the Middle East: Israel.

    6) Invest in Israel to keep her strong, or an even greater darkness will descend on this very troubled corner of the world as Israel is truly the greatest hope for the region, if only her neighbors would cooperate and then benefit from all that Israel has to offer that will improve the lives of its Arab neighbors, too.

    7) Invest in Israel because it’s the right thing to do.
    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:34PM    #
  278. Ummm….actually the article itself does not bother me at all. It’s the fact that it takes up valuable room on the site.

    In terms of “the cat being out of the bag” and any other BS you want to write, go ahead. I am still a proud Zionist and will always be. I also do not believe divestment will ever be achieved by the U or the city, honestly so I couldn’t care less what you write, really.

    I know the truth about Israel and I know when I read complete BS.

    I am a proud Zionist who will always support Israel because its the correct thing to do. We have more supporters than we do crazy people like you so I am confident as always that we will win militarily and ideologically.

    Thanks and have a nice day.

    :)


       —Jason    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:36PM    #
  279. Mike!

    Thanks so much for taking the INVEST IN ISRAEL NOW challenge! These are awesome reasons to invest.

    Hey guys, another one who got 7 reasons!! Do I see a change of rules here? Maybe posters should come up with 7 reasons?? Well, three or any amount is fine but see how easy it is peeps?? It’s so easy to find ways why we should INVEST in Israel.

    A friendly reminder: Ignore the anti-Israel rants of these mentally unbalanced people. If you really take a look at their posts, they are coo-coo for co-co puffs!! LOL. Seriously, they’re nuts, don’t bother. Let’s just keep the Investment challenge going.

    Thanks again Mike.

    Let’s here from other members of our community.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:41PM    #
  280. First,

    I think that we should certainly delete all the posts where people just cut and paste the whole article. It’s just rude!

    Second,

    These stupid ‘ethnic bomb’ bullshit. Ok, whoever is posting on that is really dumb and knows nothing of the region (middle east). Why?? Because it says it will target ‘arabs’ and not ‘jews’. Man, how stupid can you be?? There are hundreds of thousands of Jewish-Arabs. Actually there might be over a million. When Isreal was formed over 600,000 jewsish arabs living in the sourounding countries moved to the new state of Israel (this happened mostly between 48 and 68). So a bomb that kills arabs will have to kill jews, because there are many jewish arabs. But then don’t bother to correct the lies of the jew/israel hating JWFP & Co because they make their cases based on made up stories rather then the truth.

    PLEASE MODERATE THESE COMMENT SECTIONS

    oh, yah, and where is the Blog for the JWFP, someone give me a link so I can start wasting thier space


       —Just a Voice    Aug. 11 '06 - 04:51PM    #
  281. JAV,
    did you read post#462?

    They can post on your blog but you can’t post on their blog.
    That’s how they work, they don’t want dialogue.

    if you look at henry’s blog
    you’ll see this:
    “Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author.”


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:06PM    #
  282. To #473: My pleasure, Invest Now! Another reason to invest is that Israel is a safe haven for not only all Jews, but for freedom of thought and those who found the doors of concentration, slave labor, and death camps shut tight behind them and the doors of the world closed to them virtually everywhere some six decades ago, would have been saved had the one Jewish state in the world existed then. Yes, even crazy, self-hating Jews bent on the destruction of the Jewish homeland before it came into being, now, and always would have found a haven there had they needed it just as almost all Jews in Europe did during the Hitler regime (one still much admired by Islamic extremists and apparently their collaborators in Ann Arbor and elsewhere as well).

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:10PM    #
  283. Invest in Israel because Zionism is the life-affirming, peace-seeking national liberation movement of the Jewish people, and anti-Zionism is Nazism; and no amount of fact-manipulation, lies, distortions, hate-fueled invective, hypocrisy, anti-Zionist and antisemitic propaganda and attempted censorship will ever cover up the truth.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:18PM    #
  284. Henry and Blaine of Ann Arbor:

    The world now knows that Henry and Blaine are douchebags.

    To stand by the side of the douchebags will alienate you and make you loss friends.

    Henry and Blaine are permanantly in a moronic state.

    anti-semitism is racism

    —Henry and Blaine are racists Aug 11, 01:16 PM
       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:21PM    #
  285. Henry and Blaine are terrorizing arborupdate using
    inane logic, bad cut and paste and grammar and boring people to death in Ann Arbor and Washtenaw County.

    Henry and Blaine are douchebags

    —Henry and Blaine are douchebags Aug 11, 01:23 PM #
       —get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:27PM    #
  286. Israel is a free, open, tolerant, democratic, modern, life-affirming nation that defends itself from relentless, medieval-minded foes in a death-worshipping cult forever bent on her destruction who put ball-bearings in rockets and nails in bombs to inflict maximum pain and damage to innocent civilians and send their own children to become “martyrs” in a “paradise” they’ll never find as they kill and maim, so keep the investments in Israel coming. Islamic extremists worship death and danced for joy in the streets when 3,000+ were incinerated and buried in rubble on September 11, 2001. Anti-Zionism is racism. Invest in Israel and Zionism.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:33PM    #
  287. Blaine and Henry are douchebags.

    Blaine and Henry are in an insane state of mind.

    Blaine and Henry should be taken to the world court and held responsible for their atrocities in hijacking threads on arborupdate.

    — Blaine and Henry are douchebags Aug 11, 01:30 PM #
       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:33PM    #
  288. Blaine and Henry have committed crimes by boring the people of Ann Arbor on Washtenaw County on arborupdate.

    many times more than twice!

    —Ann Arbor Resists those douchebags Blaine & Henry. Aug 11, 01:34 PM #
       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:37PM    #
  289. To the sane people on this blog—you know who you are—someone finally proves what a big, fat liar he is. You can see in post #488 that he calls himself we and talks about everyone else as you proving without any doubt that he is not Jewish. When he says us it means he’s either a non-Jewish Arab or an enemy of the Jewish people or both. If he lies about this simple fact, people, you know that everything else he says is also a lie. The zero credibility factor surfaces. Liars resist—the truth.

    Invest in Israel to fight lies and uphold the truth.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 05:50PM    #
  290. what do you know?
    I found an article describing Blaine & Henry’s
    hijacking of arborupdate threads:

    In 2004 News of the Weird reported research suggesting that herring routinely communicate among themselves via a high-pitched, “raspberry”-like sound emitted from the anus. In June 2006, a researcher at Greenland Institute of Natural Resources said that herring appear also to use anal bubbles as a defense to obscure themselves from killer whales. [Discovery Channel News, 6-20-06]


       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:07PM    #
  291. Blaine and Henry are massacring arborupdate threads.

    The blood of arborupdate threads who are killed are on the hands of Blaine and Henry.

    We will survive you like we have in the past.

    Arborupdate Resists.
       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:13PM    #
  292. Henry and Blaine are Crazy, Uranus News

    August 11, 2006

    Many Arborupdate readers question Blaine and Henry’s ’s sanity, but are afraid to speak out in congregations or even to their families. But the time has come for arborupdate readers to challenge the policies of the arborupdate website.

    In the short run these policies kill threads, mostly innocent threads; in the long run, they can result only in disaster for webpages worldwide.

    Our silence in this time of crisis is complicity.

    And criminal.

    —complicity is criminal Aug 11, 02:00 PM #
       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:19PM    #
  293. Mike:

    Thanks! These are awesome. Thanks for keeping the INVEST IN ISRAEL NOW! string going. These are ALL awesome reasons to invest. Let’s hear from the community. Let’s hear why we should INVEST in Israel now.

    If Israel were around from 1933-1945, we all know the world would have been a very different place. 6 million lives would have been saved! Hey, another reason to invest in Israel! I owe that one to Mike.

    Let’s keep ‘em comin’ peeps. The reason there is so much anger on these posts is because they know Israel will be here and they cannot stand strong Jews. They only want wimpy little hide behind mommy Jews. Well, the concentration camps have been shut down and the oven doors closed. NEVER AGAIN will Jews have no place to go or NOT have the means to defend themselves.

    Oh, and I know I am breaking my own rule here and promise to try really hard not to again but:

    the post who claimed he grew up Jewish in Lebanon? Come on. That is the just the same poster with a different name (not that there were never Jews is Lebanon but really, if you are going to make up people, come up with something a little less transparent).

    Zionists might have big muscles but we’re not stupid. :0)


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:19PM    #
  294. To the sane people on this blog: When people picket a synagogue with messages that are as antisemitic as they are racist, tell me, please who spurs antisemitism? People yelling similar slogans fire-bomb and shoot up Jewish—not Zionist— Jewish institutions and attack, beat-up, bomb, and kill Jews as Jews because they happen to be wearing a yarmulke (skullcap) or because the building is a Jewish institution. There are enough violent extremists who need less prodding than looking at these pathological pickets and their baiting signs to attack Jews. Aping Nazis who also picketed synagogues and Jewish institutions not only encourages and inspires antisemites, it is a symptom of antisemitism itself. No amount of trying to deny that can hide the truth. None.

    Funny: it is always also the advice of people who cringe and live in constant fear to not “enflame antisemitism” by being “too Jewish.” Just stay in your hole and let the enemies of the Jews spew their bile, and they’ll just go away. Yeah, right! Just ignore the antisemites, and they’ll go away! Sure, and I’m the Prince of Denmark! Well, antisemites who stand in front of synagogues on the Sabbath and snap photos of people as they go in and out of the sanctuary and of their cars and license plates are not only harassing those worshippers, they are violating their privacy and are criminals who should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and—oh, by the way—it’s no secret, also antisemites, racists, and lying, cowardly, disingenuous hypocrites.

    Invest in Israel because Israel stands up to terrorists. Those who stand up for those terrorists are at the least super-hypocrites and really antisemites themselves.

    “None Zionists?” What a typical non-sequitur from a typical lamebrain.

    Invest in Israel to fight lies and uphold the truth. Anti-Zionists are racists. Picketers in front of a Jewish house of worship warm the heart of every good ol’ antisemite.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:24PM    #
  295. Invest Now,
    HENRI PICCIOTTO seems to be a member of a “peace” group in the Bay Area, similar to the group that Blaine & Henry have here. I don’t know if they harrass people at synagogues though. That might be something unique to Ann Arbor and Nazi Germany.
    Aren’t we lucky!


       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:26PM    #
  296. Blaine and Henry can not be farther from the “truth” and “justice”.

    Blaine and Henry terrorize arborupdate threads and as long as you keep your heads under the sand and support them, you only inflame these morons.

    Blaine and Henry are racist thread killers and I stand against it, like many other arborupdate readers.

    —None brains support Blaine and Henry Aug 11, 01:56 PM #
       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:33PM    #
  297. What should we do about people on this blog who post boring stuff and make personal attacks on people, call us racist zionist murderers and try to bore us to death?

    Get back to the real issues:

    The issue is that Blaine and Henry have no life and not only are they angry and sexually frustrated, they delight in boring us.

    The issue is that Blaine and Henry hijack every thread.

    The issue is Blaine and Henry’s intention to steal threads whichever way they can.


       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:43PM    #
  298. Mike,

    You’re the best! Thanks. Get a Life, thanks for your input as well. Care to write three reasons we should invest in Israel for our string? :)

    Mike hits the nail on the head as always….there are many reasons to invest in Israel and stand up against anti-Semitism no matter what the form or source.

    Thanks guys!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:44PM    #
  299. We are dealing with the criminalisation of arborupdate.com threads. If atrocities of this nature are not reported or acknowledged, what are the implications? The end of “civilised society”?

    There can be no double standards. If G-8 leaders and the UN Secretary General do not speak out explicitly, not only in condemning but in taking concrete actions against Blaine and Henry, they too are collectively responsible for crimes against humanity.

    —Blaine and Henry are bores Aug 11, 02:42 PM #
       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:45PM    #
  300. I think we should at least stop full articles from being posted.

    Dear Bruce:

    Can we please look into the posting of full articles on this blog and make an immediate decision to delete them right away? I am talking about any article whether it be pro-Israel, anti-Israel or somewhere in between.

    All these articles do is clog the blog and not allow people who want to express their opinion to do so in a productive forum which is why this was created in the first place.

    Please give this matter some attention.

    Thanks.


       —Jason    Aug. 11 '06 - 06:54PM    #
  301. Thanks, Invest Now! for your succinct and inspiring comments.

    Invest in Israel because the good people of Ann Arbor and the sane people on Arbor Update demand it and deserve it.

    Invest in Israel because they make really great products there, so you won’t go wrong in buying them.

    Invest in Israel because it’s the only bastion of discourse and reason—and even lack of reason is allowed to flourish as long as it is kept to dialog—and does its very best to upheld the pillars of enlightenment in a very troubled world.

    And, invest in Israel because it’s army is probably the most humane in the world and despite all propaganda to the contrary goes out of its way to not deliberately target civilians even when they hide amongst the civilian population like the cowards they are. If this weren’t true, Israel would have leveled the terrorist enemies surrounding it long ago.

    Invest in Israel to make sure it always remains the strongest nation in every way in its part of the world.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 07:02PM    #
  302. Sorry, I left something important out of this paragraph in my previous post (515). It could easily have been misconstrued and should read (the parts I inadvertently omitted are italicized below):

    And, invest in Israel because its army is probably the most humane in the world and, despite all propaganda to the contrary, goes to incredible lengths to deliberately NOT target civilians and thus incurs far higher casualties to its soldiers than they would if they indiscriminately killed the way their enemies do, even when the army of murderous militants hide amongst the civilian population like the cowards they are. If this weren’t true, Israel would have leveled the terrorist enemies surrounding it long ago.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 07:14PM    #
  303. Invest Now,
    Here are 3 interesting things people in Ann Arbor may not know about Israel:

    1-Israel has tax benefits for same-sex couples
    http://uk.gay.com/headlines/5880
    2-Israel procecutes honor killings, unlike any other middle eastern country:
    http://www.mediterraneas.org/article.php3?id_article=63
    According to Khaled Al-Qudra, former Attorney General in the Palestinian National Authority, 70% of all murders in Gaza and the West Bank are honor killings [of Palestinian women by their families].
    3-Israel took in Vietnamese “boat people”
    & Bosnian muslim refugees


       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 11 '06 - 07:18PM    #
  304. Mike and Get A Life, Guys:

    Thanks Thanks and more thanks for your enthusiasm and your great information. It’s nice to know there are sane people out there willing to speak the truth.

    Yes, Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East to have gay rights on its agenda.

    What we should probably do is collect all of the posts about why to invest in Israel and put them all together in one area so people in Ann Arbor (and the rest of the country) can see the facts. Many people probably don’t know that Israel has some of the best records on earth when it comes to the following:

    1) Women’s rights
    2) Gay rights
    3) Animal Rights
    4) Equal access to education for all citizens
    5) Freedom of religion
    6) Freedom of the press
    7) Freedom of assembly

    INVEST in Israel because of the above rights in a region that has none.

    I ask any rational person to check into the same above rights in any other country in that region. Check into those rights in the Palestinian Authority. Check into those rights amongst the ranks of Hezbola, in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, in Syria, in the UAE, anyplace in the Middle East.

    Before you condemn a country and its people, look at the facts on the ground. Look at why Israel is fighting where they are and that their victory will benefit the vast majority of the world.

    The Palestinian issue is not all about Israel. I again ask people who really want to learn to go to Wickpedia and check out “Black September” and do further research and see what the Jordanian government did vis-a-vis the Palestinians after they attempted to overthrow the government there.

    INVEST in the truth. DIVEST from the lies.

    Invest in Israel now! Your freedom is worth an investment.

    What have we learned from Ann Arbor and people like WPF (I will never place the “J” in there again, as this is NOT a Jewish group they are pathetic Jewish impersonators) is that anti-Zionsim, anti-Israel behavior and the questioning of Israel’s right to exist = ANTI-SEMITISM.

    Supporting “Witnesses for Peace and Friends” is in itself a racist action.

    INVEST IS ISRAEL TODAY


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 07:43PM    #
  305. Israel is also very likely the only country in the Middle East that does not have capital punishment unlike the USA and most, if not all, of the Islamic and Arab countries.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 07:50PM    #
  306. Invest in Israel because it makes common sense, and it’s far and away the most developed and civilized of all countries in the region on every level.

    Invest in Israel because its enemies—who constantly commit criminal, racist, repressive, oppressive, Neanderthal, intolerant, murderous, barbaric activities that are so heinous, it boggles the mind to think that anyone except other barbarians or sick or deluded people could love such people—don’t want you to.

    Invest in Israel because its local enemies may huff and puff, but they’ll never stop the city, University, state, and the US from continuing its generous support of a country that is a beacon of hope for all true lovers of peace, freedom, democracy, the highest ideals of free and modern civilization, and life.

    Invest in Israel because if their enemies ever come to their senses and really sincerely want peace and stop trying to destroy Israel, anyone who does not support their violent hatred, and each other, Israel will embrace them and help them make an Eden of the region instead of the sinkhole of hate most of it is.

    L’chaim! To Life! To Israel! Invest!

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 11 '06 - 08:05PM    #
  307. Mike, you’re a true Menche. You are giving very compelling arguments why we as a city, as a university and as a nation should invest in the State of Israel.

    Most of the people of Ann Arbor, the people of this country and the world know the deal. They talk tough at the UN but know the deal. Even Lebanon knows the deal. They’re angry at Israel now but will be kissing the Israeli leaders once Hezbola is either demolished or seriously depleted.

    We should do an “Invest in Israel Now” question of the day. The question today from me is:

    Why do people who claim to be champions of human rights support all of the enemies of Israel who themselves are some of the worst human rights abusers in the world. Why would a group who claims to be fighting for the underprivileged of the world not support Israel in this fight against Islamic extremism?

    Witnesses for Peace and Friends’ goal is that Israel should not exist. They feel that once that happens, human rights will flourish in the region. In this scenario, Palestinians will be the majority in this newly formed country. Palestinians who are completely backward when it comes to any human rights issues such as women’s rights, gay rights, freedom of speech and assembly. So, you’ll take away Israel which everyone knows is one of the most tolerant and replace it with a country where human rights abuses will go on unchecked.

    I ask Witnesses for Peace and Friends: Once this hypothetical fantasy of yours is realized (which it never will be but let’s pretend) will you then boycott this new country and call on divestment from this new entity because of the inevitable human rights abuses that will take place there?

    Obviously Witnesses for Peace and Friends hate not only Jews but gays, people with disabilities, women’s right to equality and freedom of religion. If they did not hate all of these things, they would not be supporting regimes who also hate of these things against a regime that supports all of these things.

    Israel will live forever. Am Yisrael Chai!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 11 '06 - 09:35PM    #
  308. Now here’s the rest of what the Ann Arbor News article said:

    “Along with neutral signs calling for ceasefire, pro-Palestinian activists carried messages such as “Israel commits atrocities,’’ and “Israeli atrocities put blood on U.S. hands.’’

    The group of roughly a dozen people huddled with Palestinian flags and the anti-Israel signs on the side of the Federal building until they fanned out to the front of the rally just moments before the speakers started.

    As the march began west on Liberty to Main Street, members of the MCA tried to drown-out the anti-Israel chants with their own cadence of peace mantras, shouting that anti-Israel slogans were not part of the event’s theme.

    But those voices were overcome as the throng became fragmented at traffic lights.

    “Our message is very clear, we want to end the war,’’ Hassan said. “People came in with their own agenda and we can’t stop them; its a free country. But we want a ceasefire. The definition of a ceasefire is that it can’t just be one side”.

    Invest in Israel!
    Invest in Peace!


       —annarbor1us    Aug. 12 '06 - 02:17PM    #
  309. Awesome. Thanks annarbor1us!

    Thanks for putting this rally into perspective and showing readers that this was not a “hate Israel” event but a pro-peace event. This was about the will to end violence on both sides.

    The very anti-Israel writers on this blog need to continue their lies in order to get people listening to them. They cannot even print an entire article on an actual event because it will expose the phonies that these people really are….interesting.

    The Ann Arbor pro-Palestinian groups are full of lies lies lies lies lies lies lies and more lies. That actually makes me happy because it shows that these people have ZERO credibility! Nice work annarbor1us!

    And now for the morning investing section of the Invest in Israel Now News!

    1) Invest in Israel because of the lies of the ultra-left who hijack peace and want to continue war like Witnesses for Peace.

    2) Invest in Israel because they are the only ones with the capacity and desire for a true and just peace in the Middle East.

    3) Invest in Israel because you want the Middle East to remain a place of tolerance and pluralism and if you look at the above posts that include lots of facts and reasons why we should continue to INVEST in Israel, you’ll see why a free and secure Israel is good for Arabs, Christians, Muslims and Jews living in that region.

    I leave with this last comment:

    The Arabs who really don’t like Israel can always decide to pick up and leave and go to another Arab country to live amongst their own people. Jewish people cannot pick up and move to another area in the region and be with their own people.

    There are many many Arab states and one Jewish State. To deny the Jewish people the right to their own (very small) country is anti-Semitism in itself and needs to be halted.

    Hey, we defeated the Nazis and we’ll defeat the ultra-left who hate us.

    Invest in Israel because of the stability it can bring to a region of the world always in some kind of conflict. That stability will benefit all of us in the future from a financial standpoint. Investors love a stable world. Investors love Israel. Investors do not like places like Iran and Saudi Arabia who consistently discriminate against ALL NON-MUSLIMS.

    Invest in peace.
    Invest in security.
    Invest in your financial well-being.

    INVEST IN ISRAEL


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 12 '06 - 05:15PM    #
  310. I have some new chants you can try:

    Who is the terrorist?
    Palestinians are the terrorists!
    Boycott Palestinian autonomous zones!
    Divest Now!

    And here’s another oldie but goody:

    2-4-6-8: ISRAEL IS A JEWISH STATE!

    3-5-7-9 THERE AINT NO SUCH THING AS PALESTINE!

    I can make up flags from nonexistent countries too and parade them around town. That doesn’t make me legit, it just makes me nuts.

    By the way, I just looked on a recent map and there was no “Palestine” on it.

    We could make up a different country every week. This week’s made up country is Palestine. Let’s see what we can all come up with next week.

    Oh, I almost forgot, have a nice day.


       —Islamic Terrorists    Aug. 12 '06 - 06:27PM    #
  311. I’m back with three more:

    1) INVEST IN ISRAEL because Israels’s per capita income of $17,500 (in 2000) was higher than even the UK.

    2) INVEST IN ISRAEL because everyone’s doing it: Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds.

    3) INVEST IN ISRAEL because Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship—and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 – in the world.

    Sorry to be so focused on dollars and sense, but that’s the way I am …


       —Another wise INVESTOR    Aug. 12 '06 - 07:12PM    #
  312. Hey, Mike! Great ones. I agree there are many fiscal as well as social reasons to INVEST in Israel.

    Both categories offer a plethora of reasons as to why we should not only be investing what we are in Israel but DOUBLE or TRIPLE that current investment.

    Us Zionists can’t really complain. We have it much easier than our anti-Israel brothers and sisters. We just have to come up with reasons to INVEST in Israel and there are so many and it’s such an easy thing to do really.

    Our anti-Israel brothers and sisters have a harder job: They need to find reasons to divest in Israel. There’s really not much you can say. They can say, oh, Israel attacks countries who attack them first, divest. Israel tries to prevent terrorists from coming into their country to hurt their citizens by building a border fence, divest. Israel gives Gaza to the Palestinians that the Palestinians now use as a launching pad for rockets and Israel went back in to try and stop these attacks, divest. Give me a break.

    As you can see, our anti-Israel brothers and sisters are failing and will continue to fail because their platform is based on lies and ours on complete truth. The truth will always set you free. Usually I don’t like to gloat about winning but in this case I will make an exception. I am looking forward to continuing this victory into the academic year.

    Invest for your future
    Invest for your family’s future
    Invest for the Middle East’s future
    Invest for the Arabs’ future
    Invest for America’s future
    Invest for the Earth’s future

    The Venture Capitalists are doing it, Wall Street is doing it. Everyone is doing it! Get on the Invest in Israel bandwagon.

    Invest today, Invest tomorrow. Invest a little. Invest a lot. Regardless, just INVEST in Israel.

    It’s the fiscally and morally responsible thing to do.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 12 '06 - 10:06PM    #
  313. Okay, that’s wonderful. I can post articles that talk about thousands of people attending pro-Israel rallies. What’s your point? You’ve (as usual) proved nothing.

    These are the kinds of tactics you think will work to convince people to divest? Good luck.

    INVEST IN ISRAEL!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 13 '06 - 03:16AM    #
  314. Re: Post 529, Invest Now, if I’m correct in assuming that you’re referring to post 528 from Another Wise Investor, you’re giving me credit for someone else’s good ideas. Until now, I haven’t posted since Friday afternoon, August 11. I do not want to get credit for someone else’s post.

    Got to go as it’s very late…

    But before I do, remember to invest in Israel because the stronger Israel’s economy, the more advances there will be in

    * medicine

    * science

    * human rights

    * tolerance and progressive, forward-moving ideals and practices

    * economic and humanitarian aid to developing countries

    * and if, G-d willing, there will be a true and permanent peace, this would certainly be a great boon to Israel’s neighbors, too, which could make the entire region a strong, productive, healthy, stable, and prosperous zone.

    And why wouldn’t anyone who isn’t a brutal, backward-looking, antediluvian, reactionary theocrat want that?

    Peace, sanity, tolerance, and rational thought to all, and to all a good night and a good week.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 13 '06 - 05:51AM    #
  315. Mike:

    Thanks for the clarification and my apologies to “Another Wise Investor”!!

    I am glad more of the community is participating in the “INVEST IN ISRAEL NOW” challenge.

    Mike, as always, right on the mark when it comes to why we should invest in and support Israel. It’s so true, should there actually be a permanent peace, the prosperity that the region will see would be unprecedented in world history. The tourism revenue alone not only to Israel but to the surrounding nations would astronomical.

    The anti-Israel posters on this site want to keep the Palestinians down and out because the longer the Palestinians are kept down, the more reason they have to blame Israel. They couldn’t care less about the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank or the innocent Lebanese civilians. All they care about it finding ways to continue the hatred of Israel because somehow they view Israel as a source of their own shame.

    Even the protesters on Friday near the Ann Arbor Federal building wanted nothing to do with the anti-Israel contingent because being blindly anti-Israel will not bring peace to the region. You need at least TWO people in order to make peace with one another.

    You can scream divest now. You can talk about Israel’s attacks on Lebanon, you can jump up and down and speak about Israel’s incursions back into Gaza.

    The fact of the matter is:

    1) The University will continue to INVEST
    2) the city will continue to INVEST
    3) The state will continue to INVEST
    4) Our great nation will continue to INVEST
    5) The world will continue to INVEST

    Why? Because they know it’s the right thing to do if there is ANY chance for peace in the Middle East.

    Invest in Israel because you want peace
    Invest in Israel because you love all people

    Invest a lot. Invest a little. Just INVEST.

    INVEST IN ISRAEL TODAY!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 13 '06 - 02:34PM    #
  316. Good morning, Invest Now!

    I appreciate your message (533).

    I often shop in Arab and Moslem markets, grocery stores, and other shops in the area and want to let you know that every one I’ve been to carries a large line of Israeli products, mostly food. I was at one such market very recently, and I am not at all exaggerating when I say that about 50% of the stock in this shop was from Israel. If Arab-American businesses have the common sense to invest in Israel, that’s another obvious indication what a sound business practice this is.

    Invest in Israel because Arab- and Muslim-American shops continue to carry provisions made in Israel. It’s obviously beneficial to all concerned regardless of ethnicity or religion.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel and Keep Investing Now and Forever    Aug. 13 '06 - 02:59PM    #
  317. Hi Mike and Good morning:

    YES! I completely agree with you. I have seen Israeli products in Arab groceries. It makes sense to sell them. They’re good.

    If the Arab countries and the Palestinians would agree to accept Israel unconditionally, the Middle East could be such a wonderful place to live, work and play.

    I am confident it will happen. Once your adversaries (e.g., the anti-Israel posters on this site) resort to complete fabrications in order to get people on their side, our side has already won.

    INVEST IN ISRAEL. INVEST IN ALL OF OUR FUTURES.


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 13 '06 - 04:41PM    #
  318. I too have seen Israeli goods in Arab stores—right here in Ann Arbor.

    These Arab merchants INVEST IN ISRAEL because it is the right thing (for them) to do.


       —Another wise INVESTOR    Aug. 13 '06 - 05:46PM    #
  319. Not even 1 sane person supports JWPF*ckers, not willingly.

    There are those, beaten to their knees by these crazy Ann Arbor torturers, by these crazies yelling at children and old people…

    ...who look to you and realize you need to get laid.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++

    Just remember that, in the suburban comfort of Ann Arbor including the West Side and Burns Park , you could also find apparent submission to the Nazi JWPF*ers slogans and placards.

    But no…

    ...it is never right.

    A Nazi protest , in front of a house of worship, is never the “right thing to do”.

    Never.

    —Not 1 sane person supports the Nazi JWPF*ckers, not willingly. Aug 13, 01:55 PM #
       —get a life, guys    Aug. 13 '06 - 07:05PM    #
  320. Sure,

    You will find what you call “non-Arab” stores [you are even racists against Arabs as you get to decide, it seems, who is and who isn’t an Arab; an “Arab” now has to be “Palestinian” and/or one that obeys the J” W “P” F line 100%] (you can’t allow the word “I hate Jews,” which you so obviously do and with a vengeance to spout out in those exact words from your orifices) selling what you call “non-Israeli” stuff, if you are looking for that [note: it jumps out at you, you don’t even have to begin to look for it].

    “Just like stores in the Nazi-occupied Warsaw Ghetto must have sold Nazi Germany’s goods.” -Note to idiots and ignorami, the Nazis whom you so emulate didn’t allow people in the Warsaw or any other ghetto to have any food, let alone real “stores” as they starved everybody to death or through other means—to compare free people in a free country freely selling goods they freely decide to sell with the butchered and brutalized people in the ghettos is typical of the tortured and spurious “logic” of the horribly sick, twisted Nazi-like brain of poster #536. He cheapens the horrible legacy of the Shoah and dishonors and spits and defecates on all its victims as he displays how completely and willfully ignorant he is of what the Nazis did and what they were. Sad to say, no surprise there. Or, “J” W “P” F would stop imitating what the Nazis did (in the form of demonstrating in front of synagogues and urging boycotts of Jewish businesses).

    Because the Nazis are occupying your brain.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The Nazis used the word “peace” like you anti-Zionists in the “J” W “P” F do:

    The peace of the grave, after the world is Judenrein.

    Look what Islamic terrorist fanatics do…
    ...not what “J” W “P” F mentally unstable hacks say, in Ann Arbor.

    All the Jews of Ann Arbor, brutally harassed in their house of worship for the convenience of 8 members of the “J” W “P” F and their insatiable egos.

    —Nazi “J” W “P” F pickets captive house of worship.
       —Invest in Israel because Arabs, not the narrow racist way “J" W "P" F defines them, do    Aug. 13 '06 - 07:49PM    #
  321. Invest in Israel because maybe someday they will find a cure for the horrible disease from which the poor, tortured souls of the W ”P” F suffer.

    —Mike


       —Invest in Israel for the sake of helping the mentally ill in W"P"F    Aug. 13 '06 - 07:56PM    #
  322. Sure, I’ll comment on that.

    Israel has overwhelming support in the US because it is a liberal democracy that shares the fundamental values of the US, such as freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of worship, freedom of the press.

    Your vicious hatred for Jews blinds you to such obvious truth.


       —PoV    Aug. 13 '06 - 09:01PM    #
  323. First off to answer your question about why the word “Palestinian” cannot cross anyone’s lips is because there is no such thing as a Palestinian. There are Arabs and then more Arabs. Arabs live in different places. Some Arabs allow fellow Arabs to live in refugee camps. Some don’t.

    There is no country called Palestine. There is no Palestinians. You can wave your fake flag and talk about “Palestinians” but there is really no such thing. “Palestinians” are a concocted victim of the ultra-left who hate Israel. “Palestinians” are Arab decedents of Arabs who lived in Palestine at the time of Israel’s creation. The whole notion of a “Palestinian” is a fabrication.

    I actually enjoy the anti-Zionist banter. Why? Because it means nothing. They are just trying to make us angry because they don’t want Israel to exist. They know that Israel exists. It’s one of the strongest countries in the Middle East and the world.

    The Palestinians or whatever you want to call them are not coming to take over Haifa or Tel Aviv or anything. Believe me. It aint gonna happen. There is so much support for Israel in this country and in other countries from people all over the political spectrum. Of course there is the anti-Zionist fringe but all they are is a fringe. Their opinions mean nothing. Their writing means nothing. They cannot even support a country that exists, they have to make up one, “Palestine.”

    I am going to start supporting the downtrodden people of the beautiful country of Rolidrety. All people of Rolidtrety need to remain free from the occupation. Let’s create a flag and march through the streets screaming “Free Rolidrety.” We can make up a country every week and yell, scream and jump up and down and do summersalts until this new made up country is free from occupation.

    Never heard of this Rolidrety you say? That’s because I made it up. Kind of like Palestine.

    Look folks, even though I went around the long way on this…..Israel is here now. They are strong. They get stronger every day. Israel will never go away and that’s what makes these anti-Zionists, crazy racists so angry.

    Invest in Israel because they are the strongest link in the Middle East.

    Invest in Israel because it’s the most stable country in the region.

    Invest for your future, your children’s future, the world’s future. INVEST IN ISRAEL TODAY!!


       —Invest Now!    Aug. 14 '06 - 01:10AM    #
  324. I hope that the people of Washtenaw County are sick and tired of sending $6.5 Million annually to a country that by law practices racial discrimination (the math is easy). When we all realize how these millions could otherwise be spent, and when we break the nonsense taboo that criticizing Israel is equal to anti-Semitism, then we will see other groups start falling in line to STOP US AID TO ISRAEL.


       —Henry Herskovitz    Aug. 14 '06 - 12:25PM    #
  325. I hope that the people of Washtenaw County are sick and tired of idiots picketing a house of worship. When we all realize how these millions of minutes of time could otherwise be spent, and when we see that harassing people going to worship is obscene, then we will see other groups start falling in line to STOP JWPFU*KERS.

    —Hairy Fartkovitz Aug 14, 08:25 AM #
       —Blaine and Henry are douchebags aka get a life, guys    Aug. 14 '06 - 01:01PM    #
  326. I propose an experiment in two steps.

    In the first step, Henry Herskovitz and his band of brownshirts jump on a plane and wield their picket signs in front of a synagogue in Israel.

    I predict they will find the reaction to be about the same as the reaction here: vocal protest and disgust, but grudging tolerance of their bigotry.

    Second, take the show down the road to any of Israel’s Arab neighbors—you pick, Henry!—change the signs, mutatis mutandis; say to protest the Muslim enslavement of Palestinian refugees in the countries in which they have lived for over 50 years.

    I predict Henry and his gang will be swinging from the lamp posts by dawn. (Don’t let on that your mother was Jewish, Henry, or you will more likely suffer Daniel Pearl’s fate.)

    If Henry and his thugs want to conduct this experiment, I’m sure many folks in Ann Arbor will show great generosity in helping them to finance the trip.


       —PoV    Aug. 14 '06 - 02:07PM    #
  327. A first year law student would be able to argue that after reading the ENTIRE post, PoV made no such suggestion…

    Again, yet another cowardly attempt to accuse others of threatening you all with harm when no such attacks occur. Grow up boys! You can’t keep picking a fight and then run home with your tails between your legs when someone calls you on your bullshit! And by the way, “Peaceful Palestinian Supporters” is a play on words. Stalkers use the same argument in court when they “harrass” the shit out of women outside of their homes and places of work…see a similarity there guys?


       —annarbor1us    Aug. 14 '06 - 03:34PM    #
  328. Oh,and I forgot to add:

    Invest in Israel!
    Invest in Peace!


       —annarbor1us    Aug. 14 '06 - 03:39PM    #
  329. I’d suggest you stop using computers since some of the technology used came from Zionist Israel!!!!

    And the next time you are in pain and need an MRI, please stick to your misguided principals and refuse it since the technology came from Zionist Israel!!!!

    And while you are at it, stop eating vegetables and fruit because guess where the drip irrigation technology came from? Zionist Israel!!!!

    Please don’t use ICQ chat or leave a voicemail message on a mobile phone.

    Guess why?
    The technology was developed in Zionist Israel!

    Do you have high cholesterol? You are forbidden to use any medication because why, some of the drugs were developed by Zionist Israel!

    Do you see my point?
    :-)


       —get a life, guys    Aug. 14 '06 - 04:39PM    #
  330. As this discussion is 1) not about an issue relevant to Ann Arbor; 2) Only an aggregation of attacks and trolling; 3) not intended to seriously change minds; 4) not likely to result in any significant progress on the item in discussion; 5) about an event that has passed and 6) has had multiple calls for moderation/deletions, I will be closing the commenting. If there are futher objections to this action, feel free to write me at joshsteich@gmail.com. I will forward complaints to the AU board.


       —js    Aug. 14 '06 - 04:44PM    #