Arbor Update

Here’s a little information about one of the co-sponsors:

HURON VALLEY GREENS
a local chapter of the Michigan Green Party
548 S. Main St., Ann Arbor, MI 48104
http://www.hvgreens.org ph. (734) 663-3555

RESOLUTION ON MICHIGAN PEACEWORKS

Adopted by consensus at the regular business meeting of the Huron Valley Greens on May 8, 2006.

WHEREAS the stated mission of the Ann Arbor-based Michigan Peaceworks (hereafter “Peaceworks”) is: “Peaceworks is a grassroots organization dedicated to peace, democracy, civil rights, and civil liberties. To that end, we undertake education and action on local and state levels to influence U.S. foreign and domestic policy;” and,

WHEREAS the stated “major goal areas” of Peaceworks include: providing “accurate information and analysis about the ‘War on Terrorism’ and nonviolent alternatives;” fostering and promoting “a viable community organizing model (a philosophy, style of work, and goals that serve to mobilize community action);” and creating and maintaining “a safe space for dissent;” and,

WHEREAS the Ann Arbor-based Peaceworks is one of Michigan’s largest organizations dedicated to peace; and,

WHEREAS based upon the overlap of Green values with the purported values of Peaceworks, there is likely to be a significant number of Greens attracted to or already supporting Peaceworks; and,

WHEREAS, based upon the testimony of persons with direct, personal knowledge of the matters described below, the Huron Valley Greens make the following findings of fact:

1.Peaceworks’ predecessor, the Ann Arbor Area Committee for Peace (AAACP), was nominally a membership-based organization.
2.A struggle over internal democracy in Peaceworks (then AAACP) came to a head in late 2002 and early 2003 after Steering Committee members overwhelmingly voted against and refused to implement the group’s “Call for Peace in the Middle East.”
3.The Call was the result of months of work by a duly appointed subcommittee and was approved by 78% of voting members before the Steering Committee’s action and committed the organization to supporting “the Israeli and Palestinian peacemakers … who call on their fellow citizens to renounce violence” and “solidarity with all those working for peace in the Middle East.”
4.The row led to the resignation of two Steering Committee members and the Call was removed from the Peaceworks web site in 2004-2005.
5.Sometime in 2004-2005, Peaceworks dissolved its membership and is now governed by a self-selected, as opposed to member-selected, Board of Directors.
6.In 2004, Peaceworks staged a march and rally on the first anniversary of the US invasion of Iraq and Peaceworks organizers imposed a gag rule on discussion of the Israel-Palestine conflict by invited speakers.
7.On short notice Peaceworks retracted its speaking invitation to Teresa Al-Saraji, the mother of a US soldier in Iraq, apparently, due to her association with the Blue Triangle Network, an immigrant rights group.
8.Ann Arbor City Council member Joan Lowenstein, a prominent local Zionist, was allowed to sit on the dais and speak at the 2004 rally.
9.Peaceworks has refused to endorse or publicize the City of Ann Arbor Human Rights Commission’s “Resolution in Support of Ending U.S. Military Support for Israel” and did not support an Israel divestment resolution put before the Michigan Student Assembly in March, 2005.
10.Peaceworks is not supporting the current campaign by University of Michigan faculty, students and staff to get the University Regents to appoint, under an apartheid-era Regents resolution, an advisory committee to investigate whether divestment from Israel is warranted.
11.This divestment effort has been endorsed by, among others: Bishop Thomas J. Gumbleton, Ann Arbor’s Interfaith Council for Peace and Justice, Michigan Peace Team, Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire, and Nobel Peace Prize Nominee Kathy Kelly.
12.The 9/11 Commission Report and others have identified uncritical US support of Israel as a major source of anger and strife in the Arab and Muslim worlds.
13.There is significant evidence that the interests of Israel were a major factor in the Bush administration’s decision to invade Iraq in 2003.
14.In 2005, then-President of Peaceworks Eric Van De Vort physically assaulted a fellow peace activist at the September 24th Peaceworks march because he didn’t like the sign the man was holding.
15.According to the victim, who asked that his name not be disclosed, Van De Vort repeatedly shoved him, “slammed his body” into him, and physically impeded his attempts to evade Van De Vort.
16.The victim said he repeatedly asked Van De Vort to stop but he continued his attack until Peaceworks Board member Nazih Hassan intervened.
17.An eyewitness to the assault, Dr. Thomas Kaeding, has confirmed details of the incident.
18.Responding to a September 28th e-mail message sent to Van De Vort, Peaceworks staff, and the rest of the Board members, Hassan confirmed his knowledge of the incident and of the victim’s identity. His only other response was: “If he has a complaint he can send it directly to the Board.” Van De Vort and other Board members did not respond to another inquiry sent on October 8th
19.Neither Van De Vort nor Peaceworks has ever publicly acknowledged, nor apologized to the victim for, the incident; and,

WHEREAS “Greens believe in direct participation by all people in the environmental, political, and economic decisions that affect their lives;” and,

WHEREAS “Greens promote nonviolent methods to oppose practices and policies with which we disagree, and guide our actions toward lasting community and global peace;” and,

WHEREAS “Greens support a restructuring of social, political and economic institutions away from a system which is controlled by and mostly benefits the powerful few, to a democratic, less bureaucratic system;” and,

WHEREAS the “Green Party of the United States (GPUS) publicly calls for divestment from and boycott of the State of Israel until such time as the full individual and collective rights of the Palestinian people are realized;” and,

WHEREAS to “maximize the effect of the Green Party’s support for divestment and boycott of Israel … The party calls on all civil society institutions and organizations around the world to implement a comprehensive divestment and boycott program. Further, the party calls on all governments to support this program and to implement state level boycotts.”

BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that the Huron Valley Greens find that Peaceworks’ structure and practices are inconsistent with its own stated mission and “major goal areas;” and,

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Huron Valley Greens find that Peaceworks’ structure and practices are inconsistent with Green values and the policy of the GPUS; and,

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Huron Valley Greens discourage Greens and other people of conscience from supporting—financially and otherwise—Peaceworks until such time as it:

1.Becomes a truly grassroots organization with a membership empowered to actively participate in Peaceworks’ decision-making process; and,
2.Publicly supports and works for a just peace in Palestine including:
a.Full equality for Arab and other non-Jewish citizens of Israel; and,
b.An end to the Israeli occupation of East Jerusalem, Gaza, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights; and,
c.Including the return of Palestinian refugees to their homes and property in accordance with UN General Assembly Resolution 194.
3.Publicly acknowledges, and apologizes for, the mistreatment of Teresa Al-Saraji and of the victim of Eric Van De Vort; and,

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a copy of this resolution will be sent by the Recording Secretary by postal mail to Peaceworks; and,

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the Huron Valley Greens encourage the Green Party of Michigan to take actions consistent with Green values and this resolution to publicly censure Peaceworks.

I see your point, Blaine: the organizers are not one-sided enough.

Too bad the Huron Valley Greens have “jumped the shark”. I can now ask HVGreens why they support screaming at children as they go to worship and what they hope that will accomplish.

Peace indeed.

Turn that question on yourself, Blaine: is there no act performed on behalf of the Palestinians to which you would take offense, express outrage? How about the the young Muslim girl who died when her home in Israel was struck by a Hezbollah rocket launched from Lebanon. (See New York Times photos from earlier this week; make ready a box of Kleenex.)

Was Hezbollah aiming at her? No … and yes: they aim at nothing, everything, anything. Their intent is to induce terror.

And in a small way, you and your fanatical loonies screaming at little girls on their way to worship have the same aim, the same objective.

Hey Blaine, what’s the deal with all the pseudonyms?

Maybe it’s not Blaine, folks. It could be someone else. Someone high up in the local Greens, perhaps?

Peace.

Oh, and I’m not a Zionist, but thanks for trying to pigeonhole me. In that respect, you’re eerily similar to George “With Us or Against Us” Bush.

Additionally, you’re setting up straw man arguments here. I just said that I think the local Greens lose some credibility when they scream at Jews going to temple. I didn’t say anything about taking “affense”. I mean, what’s your screaming in Ann Arbor going to do to help the problem?

I’ll light a candle and pray for peace, for by my actions I will be a symbol. You just go ahead spreading “peace” by violently screaming at your fellow citizens as they go to worship.

When’s the last time you prayed for the School of the Assassins?

When’s the last time you had candle vigils for “both sides”: for Latin American death squads AND the peasants they massacred?

Never, I hope.

Years ago, when ICPJ was able to maintain relative silence on Palestine…

...ICPJ led all kinds of events against the School of the Assassins, which trained Latin American death squad militaries.

ICPJ never used the word “both sides” then.

One side had all the military might. ICPJ fought them 100%.

ICPJ-ers went to jail demanding that the military death squads be shut down.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The OTHER side were desperately impoverished peasants.

ICPJ supported oppressed peasants, in those days.

Some of those peasants, in El Salvador, in Guatemala, tried to resist. Most couldn’t or wouldn’t.

And ICPJ stood with all those oppressed peasants: 100%, not 50%.

ICPJ never said “both sides” were victims.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Today, you have the same massive, heavily nuclearized (!) military, this time an Israeli military, with the 1st or 2nd best air force on Earth.

ICPJ will not stand against the Israeli state.

ICPJ will not stand against the Israeli military, not 100%, not 1%.

No, today, ICPJ stands with “both sides”!

Today, you have the same desperately impoverished peasantry, strangled by that Israeli military.

ICPJ will not stand with those peasants, not 100%, not 1%.

Because this time, the peasants are Palestinian.

And ICPJ is on its knees before the Zionists, and their checks.

What a disgrace…

Today, to pay its rent and salaries… ICPJ is lighting candles for “both sides”.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This moral collapse on Palestine infects all of ICPJ’s work, makes it all more conservative.

Any ICPJ employee who tries to stand up publicly, in City Council, for ICPJ’s own divest-from-the-Israeli-military resolution…

...That ICPJ employee would be gone the next day.

Isn’t that true?

Please don’t cut-and-paste entire (or huge fragments of) articles; the URL is enough to allow people to read the full thing if they want.

Note that you can make links in comments by enclosing the link text in quotes, followed by a colon and the url; for example,

"arborupdate.com":www.arborupdate.com

will result in

arborupdate.com

For a another view of the situation, check out this documentary, (it is worth the 120 minutes):

Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land

I know I shouldn’t get into all of this, but as a firm supporter of ICPJ, I feel I at least have to say something.

ICPJ is an Interfaith organization working to organize people of faith on various peace and justice issues. This is at the core of what ICPJ does.

Never has ICPJ pandered to any group for the sake of their money.

ICPJ values talking to people from all faith communities in a polite and respectful manner to build community and work for peace. This mission is in conflict with calling any group offensive names or taking actions that are offensive to a particular faith community.

The peace vigil on Sunday is speaking out for Peace in the Middle East. Peace for both sides.

There is nothing wrong with other organizations or other individuals taking stands in opposition to this. At the same time, there should be nothing wrong with an Interfaith organization trying to bring together groups that are divided by this issue. That is what ICPJ does.

And for the record, ICPJ would not fire an employee for speaking out. Hopefully that employee would talk with others in the organization before doing so. Anyway, ICPJ only has 1.5 paid employees, and both of them are interested in working with all faith communities in a peaceful, respectful manner. If speaking out at City Council worked toward this goal, then that could be a possible action.

I guess I’m just speaking to no one who will really listen, but I feel the need to respond with love and peace.

Can you really go to City Council, with love for Palestine, and push for divestment from the Israeli military?

I hope so.
ICPJ’s own resolution, of 2003, empowers you to do just that.

Or else what is love?

You should either march for peace or march for a ceasefire, but the two don’t co-exist. A cease-fire will give Hezbollah a chance to restock it’s weaponry and attack Israel on another day. A temporary peace that would lead to more killing at another time.

If Hezbollah were disarmed and stopped attacking Israel and worked as a legitimate faction of the Lebanese government, maybe we could have peace. If Israel were disarmed it would take a matter of days before they would cease to exist as a nation.

Do you think the Ann Arbor march will be similar to the one they recently held in Dearborn, where they carried both Lebanese and Hezbollah flags and cheered the picture of the leader of the Hezbollah?

Mark, I thought your documentary was the biggest media propaganda item I have ever viewed. We need to stop the hatred that fuels this conflict. It is a horrific atrocity to have the large number of civilian deaths we have seen recently. However, when civilians attack and use their children as shields to prevent a counterattack, they lose the moral high ground.

I stand with Israel and I stand with peaceful Muslims. They’ve never attacked my country. They don’t capture innocents and chop off their heads. They don’t commit terrorists acts in countries all over the world. But I stand against all acts of terrorism. The best PR for both Palestinians and Lebanese would be for their leaders to arrest and convict those persons who live amongst them who plot and carry out acts of terror in the name of religion.

I would never advocate divestment from Israel. I think it’s very important that we should continue to support our allies in this fight against terror. If we don’t help them, they won’t help us the next time Hezbollah attacks our citizens.

What facts did you not like, in that documentary?

The facts of what is being done to Palestine, in Palestine, by invaders and occupiers?

[37 inline images in one comment is uncool; replaced with links. Please don't do that again.--ed.]

[image] This man never did anything to harm Israel.

[image] Neither did this boy.

[image] Neither did he.

[image] Hezbollah never did anything like this.

[image] So what did the Lebanese do to deserve this sort of treatment?

[image] Was it for harboring Hezbollah?

[image] Well, what did Hezbollah do to provoke this outrage?

[image] Attacked Israel, you say? Kidnapped their troops?

[image] The militant group Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes Wednesday across the border in southern Lebanon, prompting a swift reaction from Israel, which sent ground forces into its neighbor to look for them. The forces were trying to keep the soldiers’ captors from moving them deeper into Lebanon, Israeli government officials said on condition of anonymity. [Forbes 7/12/06]

[image] Captured two soldiers, trespassing in Lebanon?

[image] In the afternoon, the scene changed in the streets of southern Lebanon, which was the target of 32 Israeli raids that mainly targeted areas near the area where the two soldiers were captured in Aita al Chaab, close to the border with Israel. [Deutsche Presse-Agentur 7/12/06]

[image] So if Hezbollah was responding defensively, what does that make Israel’s role in all of this carnage?

[image] The Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. “Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon,” a statement by Hezbollah said. “The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place,” it added. The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they “infiltrated” into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border. [Hindustan Times 7/12/06]

[image] This man never did anything to harm Israel. Israel does not care:

“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

[image] According to the Lebanese police force, the two Israeli soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aïta Al-Chaab, near to the border with Israel, where an Israeli unit had penetrated in middle of morning. [AFP 7/12/06]

[image] “I am honored to be here to speak about something that can never be said enough: America’s commitment to the safety and security of the State of Israel is unwavering.” Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, Address to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, April 1, 2003. [PIWP]

[image] Imagine that… AMERICA SUPPORTS KILLING ARABS AND MAKING EXCUSES FOR IT, TOO

[image] A dead little Iraqi girl in Basra with a pile of corpses in background. These are your fellow human beings, literally butchered to death by American pilots who dropped cluster bombs on them.

[image] It’s all made possible, with your tax dollars.

[image] WASHINGTON, July 21 — The Bush administration is rushing a delivery of precision-guided bombs to Israel, which requested the expedited shipment last week after beginning its air campaign against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon, American officials said Friday. [NY Times, July 21 2006]

[image] UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.

The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling, diplomats familiar with the probe say. [BBC News, 7/26/06 ]

[image] Can you blame the U.N. for being there?

[image] Israeli Justice Minister: IDF Entitled to Kill Everyone in South Lebanon
He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in.

He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter. [BBC News, July 27 2006 ]

[image] Look more like nuns to me. But after this, who could blame them if they did support Hezbollah.

[image] It is obvious who the real terrorists are here.

[image] Hint: It’s where war = peace, where theocracy + plutocracy = democracy, where wars are launched on lies.

[image] How stupid could the public possibly be?

[image] Dumb enough to think that this is “fighting terror?”

[image] TRANSLATION: According to the Lebanese police force, the two soldiers were captured in Lebanese territory, in the area of Aïta Al-Chaab close to the border, whereas Israeli television indicated that they had been captured in Israeli territory. [fr.news.yahoo 7/12/06]

[image] The militant group Hezbollah said it captured two Israeli soldiers during clashes across the border in southern Lebanon on Wednesday. [chinabroadcast 7/12/06]

[image] Israel intends to arrest more senior Hamas figures in addition to the dozens of Palestinian lawmakers and ministers arrested in a predawn raid Thursday, the Justice Ministry said Thursday.

The detention of Hamas parliamentarians in the early hours of Thursday morning had been planned several weeks ago and received approval from Mazuz on Wednesday. [Haaretz , three days after the other “kidnapping”]

[image] Israel stages these events. Israel wants to take over the Middle East.

“When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

[image] [image] [image] The U.S. wants it, too. Because there’s big bucks in carnage. That’s the only reason we really invaded Iraq, any way you slice it. Behind the oil, the military interests, the fanatical Judeo-Christian interests, it’s the money.

[image] You will notice that Hezbollah’s interests cannot be sliced this way. What profit has Hezbollah ever received from terror? Only the American and Israeli interests have profited from the war on terror.

[image] Only the most mentally bankrupt and morally insane individuals on Earth could not tell which side is the real terrorist.

[image] There is no “war on terrorism”. There is only the U.S./Israeli military/government’s perennial war OF terrorism which slaughters innocent people all over the world, outside the U.S. and within it. The thousands of American people in the World Trade Center, the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and now, 400 Lebanese, 9 Canadians, and 4 U.N. observers and counting joined the ranks of the millions of people whom our and their government and military have brutally butchered for over 50+ years.

****

How to Create a “Terrorist”

“Terrorist” created.

The “War on Terror”, by its design, will exponentially create “terrorists”.

Think about it.

Hmmmm. Where are the pictures of the damage caused to Israel? Do Hezbollah bombs ever kill anyone? What do you think caused Israel to become so aggressive? Maybe 50 plus years of its neighbors attacking their citizens. Maybe a PLO whose aim was to destroy their nation state. Maybe a Pan-Arab Alliance to destroy their people and wipe them off the face of the earth. Maybe 1500 years of Muslim aggression. Do you really think you can convince rational thinking individuals that terrorism is justified at any time?

By the way, do you know where I can buy those cool T-shirts?

Not like Blaine at all,

You asked, “Do you think the Ann Arbor march will be similar to the one they recently held in Dearborn, where they carried both Lebanese and Hezbollah flags and cheered the picture of the leader of the Hezbollah?”

As an organizer of the march, I can say that we are focusing on a message that says stop the cycle of violence, ceasefire now, and re-start the peace process.

As this thread indicates, that doesn’t mean that extremests won’t be there, but I think the best way to address that is to overwhelmingly outnumber them.

ICPJ and Michigan Peaceworks thought hard about hosting this event, and I wondered about posting it, just because of the kind of reaction we see in this thread. But we decided that it would be irresponsible to abandon the issue to the exremists.

And the position of the march is not extreme. It is in line with the Pope , major Jewish peace groups , and many other mainstream groups.

I hear that you don’t support a ceasefire, and I disagree. As do many other people in the community—people whose politics are very different from Blaine’s. I think it’s important that these other voices be heard in Washington, in Washtenaw County, and in the Middle East.

I don’t ask ICPJ to support my point of view.

I asl ICPJ to support its OWN, voted-upon point of view:

To demand divestment, publicly, from the Israeli military.

A very similar position was also overwhelming approved, by a democratic and highly-publicized vote of Michigan Peaceworks, when it called itself AAACP:

The AAACP (Peaceworks) membership voted for a Resolution to overwhelmingly to oppose military aid to Israel.

As you know.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, I do ask Peaceworks to stand for that Palestine Resolution, which its members so overwhelmingly approved…

....Before every last Palestinian and Lebanese is dead, at the hands of that Israeli military.

Remember, that same Israeli military just murdered 4 unarmed U.N. observers, after shelling around their post for 6 hours, after being warned 10 times to stop it.

There is no need for me to keep bothering you, if you would stand up for your own principles:

* Push for divestment from the Israeli military (Yes, you voted for that in 2003.)

* Publicly oppose military aid to the State of Israel (Yes, you voted for that, too).

******************************

That has nothing to do with religion.

That has everything to do with acting like a real anti-war group, a real peace group that stands with oppressed peasants (or it used to, anyway.)

“Only the most mentally bankrupt and morally insane individuals on Earth could not tell which side is the real terrorist.”

Absolutely true statement… both sides have ‘real’ terrorists; arguing which side is worse is superfluous.

Who has the courage to be the first on either side to admit the truth and put their weapons down? Until then expect more of the above… on both sides.

ICPJ is a peace group, so we don’t support military aid to any country: Israel, Colombia, Saudi Arabia, Egypt…the list goes on.

And we look for the most effective way to promote a just and lasting peace for all people in the region, and right now that means calling for a cease fire.

I am totally OK with cutting off every penny of military aid to all those places.

ICPJ went through much trouble to re-draft, and re-re-draft, and approve, a Resolution specifically and clearly singling out Israel.

Because of Israel’s violent ethnic supremacy policies, specifically because Israel’s is the ONLY military, of all those you listed, which has been invading another land, occupying and destroying its native population—yeah, ICPJ singled Israel out for that special mention.

So do I.

Again, I do ask you to stand up for your own ICPJ Resolution, or else change ICPJ’s name to “Crop Walk. Inc.”

>>> Hmmmm. Where are the pictures of the damage caused to Israel?

That’s a good question, NLBAA. You can’t find them because they don’t exist. No Palestinian or Lebanese attack on Israel ever did damage of that magnitude.

>>> Do Hezbollah bombs ever kill anyone?

You don’t get it. Israel invaded Lebanon, not the other way around. Hezbollah has been attacked, of course they retaliated. What did you expect, they would just let Israel steal their land?

>>> What do you think caused Israel to become so aggressive?

>>> Same reason America was aggressive toward Iraq. Fundamentalist psychopaths and big businessmen and bankers conspired to trick the public into going along with it.

>>>Maybe 50 plus years of its neighbors attacking their citizens.

...in response to Israeli aggression

>>> Maybe a PLO whose aim was to destroy their nation state.

...on the land they stole, for the people they brutally oppressed…

>>> Maybe a Pan-Arab Alliance to destroy their people and wipe them off the face of the earth.

Oh? And what “Pan-Arab Alliance” might you be referring to? Hezbollah is a political party with competitors, Al-Qaeda is a CIA operation that most Arabs despise for the war that they instigated.

>>> Maybe 1500 years of Muslim aggression.

You just make things up as you go, don’t you? Unfortunately, the historical record is totally clear that it is white people doing most the aggression of the last 1500 years. And Islam didn’t exist 1500 years ago, by the way.

>>> Do you really think you can convince rational thinking individuals that terrorism is justified at any time?

I don’t have to, NLBAA, because defending one’s country within that country’s borders is not committing terrorism. To rabid Americans and Israelis it might be, but any human can see that when country invades another, the country that’s being invaded is not being the terrorist, the aggressor is.

So I’d have to say no, I don’t expect rational people to think terrorism is justified at any time. Israel is not rational and their terrorism is never justified.

As the photos clearly show, Israel has invaded Lebanon, not the other way around, and no amount of cognitive gymanstics and lies can get around it.

Oh, you know:

What’s it like to live in Neverneverland? Maybe I should come visit you when I need a break from reality?

“You don’t get it. Israel invaded Lebanon, not the other way around. Hezbollah has been attacked, of course they retaliated. What did you expect, they would just let Israel steal their land?”

A) The invasion came AFTER Hezbollah crossed the internationally recognized border of Israel. Hezbollah attacked the Israeli army. Now, if you’re of the opinion, like myself, that Israel’s response has been disproportionate, that’s legitimate. The devastation to Lebanon is horrible, and, in my mind, not justifiable. But I also think that it is plausible for two military entities to battle each other. If Hezbollah wanted to fight, it’s reasonable to expect Israel to fight them. Further, Hezbollah is not a state; it’s an organization. They don’t have land for Israel to steal. You’re trying to make excuses for Hezbollah to be “defensive” but as a non-state actor, they aren’t. If by stealing land you mean Lebanon’s, well, Israel left in May 2000. With the exception of Shebaa Farms (which Israel and the international community consider to be part of Syria) Israel doesn’t occupy Lebanon in that regard (although there is an army now, but prior to Hezbollah’s attack there wasn’t).

B)”>>>Maybe 50 plus years of its neighbors attacking their citizens.

...in response to Israeli aggression” Ummm, actually most of those wars with state actors were started by Israel’s neighbors, not the other way around. Just a small historical correction.

C)”>>> Maybe 1500 years of Muslim aggression.

You just make things up as you go, don’t you? Unfortunately, the historical record is totally clear that it is white people doing most the aggression of the last 1500 years. And Islam didn’t exist 1500 years ago, by the way.”

NLBAA using the term “1500 years of Muslim aggression” is a little loaded and racist, but that doesn’t suddenly dismiss the lives of Jews living in Europe and the Middle East throughout the last 2000 years. To be fair, both Christian and Muslim states and governments have discriminated and persecuted Jews in the last two millenia. Oh, and I hope you’re not lumping Jews into that “white people doing most of the aggression” category. Nearly half of all Jews on the planet are non-white, and besides, prior to 1948, Jews had NO authority over anyone, including their own lives.

One can be against the indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon. But this labelling of everything as black and white, “if Israel bad then Hezbollah must be good” is philosophically incorrect. Israel has done bad things, but Hezbollah ain’t no human rights organization.

Jared:

Look at my original post. Contained six sources from mainstream newspapers all over the world (French Press Agency, Forbes, German Press Agency, Hindustan Times, Chinese press agency, etc) that stated that Hezbollah captured the two IDF troops IN LEBANON. Israel sent the troops in there to provoke the incident.

Israel had an illegal military presence in Lebanon, Hezbollah captured them, which is legal, and in response Israel bombed everything it could and stormed in. The neo-con agenda (which has never been wrong before) calls for a sustained Allied presence in Lebanon, “Allied” meaning U.S., Israel, and maybe some British presence.

This is geo-politics and not defense at all.

As for B, well, there is too much to get into at this time.

As for C, Hezbollah “may not be no human rights organization” but to the Lebanese they probably are right now. Nobody else is fighting back, least of all the U.N. who were deliberately targeted by Israeli guided missiles, the BBC reported yesterday.

As for the historical persecution of the Jews, well, I don’t think you’re ready to understand how the game is really played (Illuminati research is too tainted with disinfo to persuade the skeptics), but what matters is the here and now, when Israel is the aggressor, and not the victim, as I explained in excessive detail earlier.

OYN:

From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5180202.stm):

“How did the current crisis start?

The Hezbollah raid into Israel, in which eight Israeli soldiers were killed and two were captured, was a stunning and provocative attack. ”

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/29/mideast.main/index.html):

“Israel began its operations against in southern Lebanon on July 12, after the Iranian-backed Hezbollah launched a cross-border raid, killing three soldiers and capturing two others. Five more soldiers were also killed.”

From the New York Times (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0D17FD35540C708DDDAE0894DE404482)

“The Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah surprised Israel with a bold daylight assault across the border on Wednesday, leading to fighting in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and at least eight killed, and elevating recent tensions into a serious two-front battle.”

It’s ok to be wrong. It’s internationally accepted that Hezbollah crossed the border into Israel and kidnapped the two soldiers. You can believe it or not, just as you could believe that world is flat. Everyone else accepts these premises, so you will be somewhat alone.

As for the Israeli presence in Lebanon, are you referring to the Shebaa Farms? Or something else? Because if it’s something else, it’s new to the world. Israeli ended its occupation of Lebanon in 2000. Please clarify.

“As for the historical persecution of the Jews, well, I don’t think you’re ready to understand how the game is really played (Illuminati research is too tainted with disinfo to persuade the skeptics”

What the HELL does that mean? Are you saying 2000 years of Jewish persecution was imagined? Oh boy, you truly are living in Neverneverland.

“Mark, I thought your documentary was the biggest media propaganda item I have ever viewed.”

NLBAA, that’s simply Orwellian. I watched the video and found it lacking all but very minimal individual bias in some of the interviewees—so small that I hesitate to even mention it but for the desire to be as objective as possible. You’ll need to be specific in your criticism to be taken seriously. I encourage others to watch the video. I think it provides a useful perspective to complement that provided by Jason in the other thread.

“We need to stop the hatred that fuels this conflict.”

We can’t stop hatred. We can stop violence.

Steve:

”’We need to stop the hatred that fuels this conflict.’

We can’t stop hatred. We can stop violence.”
What if hatred leads to violence? Just some food for thought.

Seattle Shooting

Jared, I was speaking in the context of state-sponsored (and foreign-government—i.e., U.S.—sponsored) violence, not random, individual violence.

Hatred doesn’t always lead to violence, and hatred isn’t the only thing that leads to violence. Violence beyond the level of the individual (and sometimes even then) can be anticipated and avoided or prevented through proven means. Violence often leads to hatred and also to more violence. Hatred and violence are choices, as are the decisions to fund the carrying out of violence. Dessert for thought.

Still hungry? Hatred is an extreme (though unnecessary) outgrowth of fear and sadness, and therefore should be able to be understood by others, since we can all relate to fear and sadness. Some people prefer to throw “evil” into the mix and avoid the humanity of it all, usually for the purpose of pursuing ulterior, selfish motives (most likely also grounded in fear.)

How does the cycle end? With an outside mediator. Want peace? Propose an objective mediator (no U.S. Presidents need apply) and compensate and support them in line with the value to society of the avoided costs of destruction that would be prevented.

Jared:

Funny sources you’ve picked. I like the BBC News one the best, saying that “eight Israeli soldiers were killed” followed by the NY Times article.

Click on the link to the NYT story:

CORRECTION APPENDED

DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 1528 WORDS -The Lebanese guerrilla group Hezbollah surprised Israel with a bold daylight assault across the border on Wednesday, leading to fighting in which two Israeli soldiers were captured and at least eight killed, and elevating recent tensions into a serious two-front battle. Israel, already waging a military operation in the…

Correction: July 14, 2006, Friday A front-page caption yesterday about the Israeli military response to a cross-border raid into Israel by members of Lebanon’s Hezbollah militia misstated the number of Israeli soldiers killed during the raid. It was three, not eight. (Five Israeli soldiers were killed later when Israel sent ground forces into Lebanon.)

So, right off the bat, the NYT got at least part of the story wrong, and then, seven days later, the BBC Online Editor, in the article that you cite, is still repeating the same error.

Not only that, but your third source, CNN, is clearly being deceptive when it says,

“Israel began its operations against in southern Lebanon on July 12, after the Iranian-backed Hezbollah launched a cross-border raid, killing three soldiers and capturing two others. Five more soldiers were also killed.

Because the five other soldiers, the NYT article you cited, explains: “Five Israeli soldiers were killed later when Israel sent ground forces into Lebanon.”

So clearly, the CNN piece has the chronology wrong, saying Israel attacked Lebanon AFTER the five soldiers were killed.

So all three of your sources clearly have at least SOME of their information wrong. But that does not mean that the part about Hezbollah capturing the soldiers within Israel’s border is incorrect. But since my sources state the opposite—that the soldiers were captured in Lebanon—this calls for investigation.

Knowing what we already know about your sources, let’s look at mine.

Hindustan Times says, “The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they “infiltrated” into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.”

The Lebanese police? Hezbollah is not the Lebanese police. Why would the Lebanese police have any information on the soldiers’ capture if it occured outside of Lebanese borders? Do you really think a paramilitary organization would turn its prisoners over to the police?

Common sense: How could Hezbollah 1) infiltrate Israel, 2) capture two IDF troops (which is not easy to do in the first place), and 3) take them back across the border to Lebanon?

Israel made no secret of being well-prepared for an attack on Lebanon, and the quickness of its response supports it.

So how likely is it that

1) Hezbollah smuggled captured troops out of Israel successfully,
2) International newspapers “mistakenly” reported that the troops were captured in Lebanon, all naming the same location, Aita al Chaab, and
3) Then Hezbollah gets the police to corroborate the story?

“Hey police, we’re going to provoke a war with Israel, a country with U.S.-supplied bombs, planes, and tanks and an itchy trigger finger. Will you help cover our butts, even though you’re likely to be attacked as a result of this?”

Which of course raises the question of motive.

Why would Hezbollah invite Israel to attack Lebanon when the consequences were so predictable? Are they suicidal?

Well, if you believe Arabs are intellectually inferior, perhaps you do.

But a more rational person might see a more likely motive on the Israeli side. These recent events as a continuation of the neo-con agenda, as set forth by Zionists Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Elliot Abrams, Robert Kagan, William Kristol, James Woolsey, and their allies in the White House, who quite clearly called for engaging conflict in the Middle East as a pre-text for expanding U.S. hegemony in the area (and stealing their oil). And of course Israel goes along with all of this; after all, it suits their agenda.

“We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

Well, a lot’s changed since then, but not the agenda, it seems.

Maybe the average Israeli doesn’t want war any more than the average American, but take a look at who’s running the country and the propaganda, and—surprise surprise—it’s the war-profiteers.

To recap:

Your sources can’t get their stories straight, weren’t even credible in the first place , and told a story that makes no logical sense.

My sources are internationally recognized, and have an explanation that is consistent with what we know about American and Israeli intentions.

Looking better than the “flat-Earther” jab. But let’s examine this other claim of yours, that “It’s internationally accepted that Hezbollah crossed the border into Israel and kidnapped the two soldiers.”

More obviously untrue things have been, and still are, internationally accepted. It does not make them true.

But the funny thing is that the world has sided with Lebanon anyway.

The world community stands with Lebanon:

After Iran, Canadians see Israel as biggest threat to peace, poll finds

Referring to Israel’s attacks Friday on Lebanon’s international airport and other transport links, the latest in a three-day offensive, Chirac asked aloud whether Lebanon’s destruction was not the ultimate goal.

“One could ask if today there is not a sort of will to destroy Lebanon, its equipment, its roads, its communication…”

EU denies suppressing Israel poll finding

The European Commission denied Thursday having intervened to exclude a potentially damaging poll finding about Israel from a survey on Europeans’ views published this week (from 2003).

The EU executive said that the finding, which reportedly says that Europeans believe Israel poses the biggest threat to world peace, will be published next Monday along with the full results from the survey.

“There was no political decision,” said commission spokesman Gerassimos Thomas, asked about the report in the Spanish daily El Pais which cited findings that 59 percent of Europeans rate Israel as the most threatening country, ahead of the United States, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan and North Korea.

Somehow Jared, I don’t feel “somewhat alone” at all.

Toronto
London
Tel Aviv
Amsterdam
Ann Arbor
Worldwide

The “Israeli presence in Lebanon” I mentioned was the Israeli troops that were captured in Lebanon, not an occupying force.

As for the last cryptic comment about the Illuminati, no Jared, I don’t think the persecution of the Jews was imagine, nor the persecution of all the world’s peoples. It’s class war and elite manipulation, that has always been the true underlying basis for all of these manufactured race wars.

But given the level of person I’m dealing with here, one who actually makes excuses for murdering innocent children and believes what the mainstream press says, explaining the Illuminati to you would be like explaining calculus to a six-year-old.

Pose all of the questions you want; I’ve made my point and much more.

I’m leaving this forum; I only visited it after the news about Israel’s cyber-army

WHILE Israel fights Hezbollah with tanks and aircraft, its supporters are campaigning on the internet.

Israel’s Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages.

In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate.

Despite your efforts, it is becoming more and more obvious what is really going on.

Oh, you know:

Look, I just picked a couple of news outlets at random. Some of them were archival stories from when the crisis began. You can go through them with a fine tooth comb. Still, even you recognize that the fine print isn’t whats debated here; it’s whether Hezbollah crossed over into Israel.

At which point you turn over to “your” sources, in which you only quote one. “Hindustan Times says, ‘The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they ‘infiltrated’ into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.’” You’re right, Hezbollah wouldn’t consult the police. This makes me think that the police don’t have all the facts themselves.

Do you trust Wikipedia? Which is peer edited? Here’s what wikipedia says on the current conflict (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict):

“At 9:05 AM local time (06:05 CET), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and villages of northern Israel as a diversionary tactic, injuring at least 8 Israelis according to some reports, and lightly injuring 5 according to others. Afterwards, a ground contingent of Hezbollah militants attacked two Israeli armored Humvees on a routine patrol along the Israel-Lebanon border near the Israeli village of Zar’it with anti-tank rockets, capturing two Israeli soldiers, and killing eight. According to the Lebanese police force and Hezbollah, the Israeli soldiers were attacked and captured on the Lebanese side of the border on 12 July during a mission to infiltrate the Lebanese town of Ayta al-Sha`b,although remains of the Humvees were found in Israel.”

So, for the Lebanese police/Hezbollah position to be true, the Humvees the soldiers were driving should have been found in Lebanon. Unfortunately, the evidence suggests otherwise.

Without pointing to your other sources, you go into this anecdotal rant about how it’s almost impossible for Hezbollah to go into Israel. “Common sense: How could Hezbollah 1) infiltrate Israel, 2) capture two IDF troops (which is not easy to do in the first place), and 3) take them back across the border to Lebanon?” Because they’ve done it before. In October 2000, Hezbollah crossed the border, captured or killed (don’t know exactly when they died), and took them back into Lebanon. Four years later they exchanged the bodies and another Israeli for assorted prisoners in Israeli jails. If this were a court of law, you would have lost.

Even Nasrallah has said this was the intent of the operation (from the same Wikipedia article): “Hezbollah’s attack was named after a ‘promise’ by its leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah to capture Israeli soldiers and swap them for Samir Kuntar and other Lebanese prisoners held by Israel.”

“Why would Hezbollah invite Israel to attack Lebanon when the consequences were so predictable? Are they suicidal?” A) They attacked Israel so they could get a prisoner exchange, which has happened before B) They did not think that Israel would bombard Lebanon. They figured this to be a normal prisoner exchange. I personally think that negotiations for a prisoner exchange would be the best idea, but that’s my opinion.

“To recap:

Your sources can’t get their stories straight, weren’t even credible in the first place , and told a story that makes no logical sense.” To recap, the international consensus is that Hezbollah crossed the border. Your sources aren’t credible, at least no more credible than mine, and the events that the international community (minus of course the patsies in the Lebanese government and Hezbollah) follow what has been Hezbollah policy for years.

I don’t support the indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon; I don’t support the killings of civilians. I believe Israel should agree to a cease-fire and negotitations to get the soldiers back. You’re right, then, most of the world doesn’t want to see Lebanon completely destroyed and they want to see a ceasefire. Then you point to anti-Lebanon war pics as if everyone who supports a ceasefire also supports Hezbollah and their genocidal ideology and their version of what happened.

They don’t. When I suggested you might feel alone, I meant you are alone in believing that Hezbollah did not cross the border into Israel. You can shill for Hezbollah all you want; it doesn’t make you a good person with upstanding ethics. It either makes you an anti-semite or a dumbass. You pick.

“As for the last cryptic comment about the Illuminati, no Jared, I don’t think the persecution of the Jews was imagine, nor the persecution of all the world’s peoples. It’s class war and elite manipulation, that has always been the true underlying basis for all of these manufactured race wars.

But given the level of person I’m dealing with here, one who actually makes excuses for murdering innocent children and believes what the mainstream press says, explaining the Illuminati to you would be like explaining calculus to a six-year-old.”

See above. I DON’T make excuses for killing anyone. Don’t put words in my mouth. Look, I probably have more education than you do, so don’t patronize me. If you want to believe in Illuminati conspiracy theories, I could care less. But don’t present them as facts.

Further, your other links are credible? Whatreallyhappened.com? Please.

Finally, I’m not a part of Israel’s “cyber-army.” Your grandiose delusions are completely ridiculous. Besides, one could make the same accusations about you, just for the other side. Who knows why someone would campaign for Hezbollah on the internet, anonymously to boot?

You can be against Israel’s bombing of civilians. I am, for the most part. But don’t start cheering for Hezbollah, either.

Regarding Blaine’s uruknet.info source, I clicked on a link on the front page: Saddam Hussein’s message to the American people. Here’s a choice quote:

Saddam Hussein, ladies and gentlemen, is an honorable patriot and an honest man. He is a statesman resolute in implementing the law, just, but benevolent. He loves his people and his nation. He is straightforward, doesn’t double-cross or deceive.

Uruknet.info appears to be a Baath mouthpiece. Another article “debunks” Saddam Hussein’s murderous attack on Kurdish civilians. Not that it has anything to do with anything, but it is demonstrative of Blaine’s one-sided sources and views.

Getting back on topic, I think it’s important for people who want peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike to show up at tonight’s rally, and not let the Blaines of this world vent their despicable hatred for Jews unopposed. See you there!

I don’t try to silence those demands. I speak in opposition to them. I try to expose the ignorance, bias, and hatred behind them.

You doubt that “peace for all” will help the Palestinians?

Your demagoguery is palpable.

You have no interest in the fate of the Palestinians, just that there be no peace for Israel.

The “Human Shield” LIE Exposed
   —Get it?    Jul 31, 02:12 AM    #

Israel using a Palestinian as a human shield

There’s a new Ann Arbor-based, anti-Zionist blog with info on Peaceworks and ICPJ at http://zionistsout.blogspot.com/

WANT PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST?
WORK FOR JUSTICE!
Stop the US financial, diplomatic, and military
support for Israel that fuels the violence

Here’s how:

* Tell Congress to end all financial, diplomatic, and military aid to Israel

* Don’t buy Israeli goods and tell businesses that sell Israeli goods to stop

* Support divestment from Israel

* Make sure you don’t own Israeli bonds or stocks

* Get your retirement fund, union, and state and local governments to divest from Israel

* Educate yourself and then speak out against apartheid Israel and the racist ideology of Zionism

* Join a Palestinian solidarity group

* Buy Palestinian olive oil

Qana: Exterminating the Ants
   —Boycott Israel    Jul 31, 04:52 PM    #

This shit's gotta stop
   —Israel threatens world peace    Jul 31, 04:56 PM    #

“Is it not conceivable that the underlying problem might be that Lebanon needs a militia controlling its southern border because its next-door neighbor is run by psychopathic generals on a neocolonialist land-grabbing spree who don’t hesitate to use the capture to two soldiers as an excuse to destroy an entire country?”
Wow, Arbor Update has been invaded by Hezbollah . . .

“This boycott should extend to all Jewish-owned or -controlled businesses. The diaspora has gotten away with murder over the years, secretly supporting Israeli violence but hiding behind the specter of anti-Semitism in order to avoid being blamed for it.” Yes, because any and all Jews are responsible for Israel’s actions. I guess if Nasrallah here doesn’t get his way, maybe people should just shoot up Jewish community centers and federations (like in Seattle this past weekend) to get Israel to end the occupation.

But wait, this guy’s not anti-semitic. He’s offering us a way out:
“Boycotting Jewish businesses sounds entirely unfair, and it is. There should be a way out. We need some kind of international body to identify all Jewish-owned or -controlled businesses and allow them to escape the boycott by making a public statement disclaiming Zionism and Israeli violence, preferably coupled with a generous contribution to humanitarian relief for the victims of Zionist violence. ”

So Jews, and only Jews, should be forced to pay for . . . what exactly?

“The international body should be able to certify if a business is subject to the boycott or not, and should license a logo which complying businesses can put on their products so that decent human beings can buy them.” How ‘bout a yellow star, jackass?

First it was the neo-Nazis, and now it is Hezbollah. Here’s my answer to your proposal: kiss my ass.

Ann Arbor is a Zionist town but the Zionists are losing their grip.

In the little candle light vigil on Liberty and Main last night someone who said she was speaking on behalf of Arab, Iranian and Muslims in this area got on a loudspeaker and repeatedly told vigilers that if they really want peace they must do something meaningful for the people of the Middle East (Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, and Lebanon).

She told them their vigils mean nothing to the thousands of Lebanese who have become homeless in the Israeli attacks.

She continued that Arab, Iranian and Muslims of Ann Arbor area ask you to help them in the campaign to end military aid to Israel. She invited people to join her group and ask the city of Ann Arbor and the U of M to sever all ties with companies that do business with Israel.

Boycotts, sanctions and dis investment (divestment) are the only way to stop Israeli Killing Machine she said.

She asked people to go to the City Council meeting on the 10 of August 2006 to speak for ending military aid to Israel. She demanded that peace loving people of Ann Arbor stand up and end massive US support for Israel. The racist state of Israel is now acting in absolute defiance of all that is moral and international laws.

Israel is an outlaw state which has to be contained by the international community.

Search the Google for the latest EU poll to see what Europeans think of Israel. The result should be out soon. For almost 4 years now Europeans agree that Israel posses a serious threat to world peace.

Let us pull the plug on Israel. Let us cut the money off (over 3 billion a year from the US) before they commit mote atrocities and destabilize the world to the point of no return.

Zionists OUT

Jared Goldberg,

Kick you ass we will. Kiss it?

NOT in this lifetime.

Boycott Israel

Results after 19 days
   —Boycott Israel    Jul 31, 05:37 PM    #

“WANT PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST? WORK FOR JUSTICE! Stop the US financial, diplomatic, and military support for Israel that fuels the violence

“Here’s how:

* Tell Congress to end all financial, diplomatic, and military aid to Israel

Yes, and while you’re at it, tell your pals in Iran and Syria to stop all military aid to Hezbollah and Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc, from funneling money to help Palestinian “freedom fighters” including Hamas and Al-Aqsa “Martyr” Brigades from targeting civilians in Israel.

* Don’t buy Israeli goods and tell businesses that sell Israeli goods to stop

You won’t have any nice vegetables to put that great Palestinian olive oil on! Thank goodness that sane people do and will continue to buy Israeli goods. Thank you for bringing to everyone’s attention that Israel produces great goods and services. Your antisemitic rants have greatly increased the flow of dollars into Israel’s economy. Keep up your irrational hate-fueled propaganda tirades. Your picketing of Hiller’s in the past and of a synagogue yet, has steeled our reserve to give even more money to help Israel’s economy. Thank you! Oh, by the way, why don’t you call for people to stop buying Chinese goods and tell (that’s rich—you are going to TELL businesses what they should or shouldn’t do!—your ignorant arrogance has no limits—just like you’re trying to dictate how a whole congregation should think, and Heaven help them if they mostly don’t think like you because you are the sole “guardian of truth” on this planet..) businesses that sell Chinese goods to stop? China is not only brutally occupying a sovereign nation, i.e. Tibet, but viciously suppressing free thought and all its manifestations in its own huge territory. Only one tiny country, the one Jewish nation in the world and its existence preoccupies your cynical worldview. You are so obsessed with hating Israel, you obviously have no time for anything positive in your sad, pathetic, little life.

* Support divestment from Israel

As long as it’s met by equal divestment in the Palestinian Arab economic structure and all the regimes that support it and their allies, Hezbollah in Lebanon.

* Make sure you don’t own Israeli bonds or stocks
Make sure you get your protein and calcium. The blood seems to be draining from your brain.

* Get your retirement fund, union, and state and local governments to divest from Israel

Thank G-d they don’t follow your stupid, myopic advice because if they did, you would see people divest from those funds so quickly, it would make your silly, little head spin.

* Educate yourself and then speak out against apartheid Israel and the racist ideology of Zionism

and don’t forgot to inoculate yourself against the mindless, racist, antisemitic ideology of JWP&F and number one obsessed raving lunatic B. Coleman; Israelita Goldstein; $billions to Israel; Zionists Out; Lebanon, Palestine FIGHT BACK; and all of his pseudonyms and headline-type signatures.

* Join a Palestinian solidarity group

If you really wanted peace and justice in the Middle East, you would see the complexity of the situation, not the all-hate-Israel/all-the-time insanity spewed by a small-minded, see-the-world as everything is Israel’s fault/the Palestinians and their allies can never do anything wrong (unless it’s to not kill enough Israelis) ideology of Ann Arbor’s own one-issue obsessive Blaine Coleman and his crew.

* Buy Palestinian olive oil

It should go great with Israeli produce. Buy food from both, but boycotting everything Israel just isn’t going to happen. Wake up, Blaine, and smell the Israeli roses, because your logic stinks just like your blind, anti-Jewish, antisemitic, and rigid conception of the horribly complicated, bloody Middle East. One cannot have a rational discussion with a self-absorbed, rigid, fanatical, hate-mongering, fixated buffoon like you. Every other word out of your spewing orifice is “hate-destroy-boycott-divest from Israel” and “Palestine, Palestine, Palestine, Palestine.” Parking Garage Dude succinctly summed up many months ago what your romantic life must be like, except he was less tender in his graphic depiction. Except for the other small band in your brownshirts picketing the synagogue (I’m sure it doesn’t bother you that a woman was murdered and five others killed at a Jewish Federation office in Seattle because a madman shouting slogans eerily similar to yours decided he was “angry at Israel” nor that a synagogue in Sydney, Australia was just attacked http://www.smh.com.au/news/NATIONAL/Call-for-calm-after-synagogue-attack/2006/07/31/1154198037878.html almost certainly for the same reason, only two of hundreds of such hate-fed incidents) only such single-minded fanaticism is found amongst those gone soft in the reasoning part of the brain. Others, including those of us who are supporters of Israel on this blog, have already said that they abhor all civilian deaths and casualties, where you seem to think that the violence against deliberately targeted Jews and Israelis who are attacked, killed, and maimed are justifiable acts of the so-called horribly “oppressed” and “defenseless” masses you champion. If there was ever any reason or balance to your arguments, you might have a shred of credibility, but even supporters of the Palestinian cause know you’re a very loose cannon. You’re too obsessed to see what harm you do to the cause you say is dear to your heart. But then again, you’re doing so much to help Zionism, I should really applaud your efforts and thank you for your great touchdowns scored inside the goalposts of your hated opponents! Thanks, pal, and keep up the great work. The Mossad the CIA must be very proud of you!

Just my two shekels’ worth.

Oh, and Blaine “Israel threatens world peace” Coleman: no one has yet to prove, by the way, that Hezbollah was not firing rockets from the destroyed building in Kana, an area from which they have been launching such missiles for several weeks, that they did not deliberately prevent people from leaving that building after the IDF issued many warnings for civilians to get out of the area, nor why no one was evacuated from the destroyed building until camera crews arrived long hours later—I wonder how many more people died because of this senseless propaganda-point-gaining delay?—and why you haters of Israel at all costs always gloss over the fact that Hezbollah, Hamas, and other terrorist operatives do nothing but hide behind civilians. If they weren’t such cowardly butchers who have no love even for their own people’s lives, let alone for the “infidels,” they would take their munitions, their bombs, and their rockets away from the heavily populated centers. But they have such a love affair with “martyrdom” that they don’t have the slightest qualm about sacrificing thousands of their own including innocent children because their hatred of Israel and all Jews in particular is so much stronger than their love of life or reason, just like JWP&F love to manipulate all images and “facts” so as to appear that Israel is the only villain on the planet.

I do not find the loss of civilian life in Lebanon a good thing, far from it, by the way, but just as Israel has been on the defensive since the founding of the state in 1948, it is not the Israelis on the whole who have wanted this constant state of war. It is not Israel that wants to destroy its neighbors to hold onto its truly tiny (Israel is the size of New Jersey) foothold in the Middle East. But, since BC and his aliases will never see this as anything but black-and-white, which reminds me of how G.W. Bush sees the world, BTW, it’s like spitting into the wind to try to actually have a reasonable, rational discussion with them like it is with Bush and his ardent supporters. Anyway, happily JWF&P will have no more effect on the outcome of this never-ending conflict (except to reinforce the opposition), any more than, as on the other hand, will, sadly, rational heads.

Oh, and thank you Jared, for taking it to these self-righteous, they-and-only-they have TRUTH on their side (yeah, right!) storm troopers!

BI:

You’re an anonymous coward. Don’t make threats if you’re not going to use your name. Making online threats is a crime anyway.

When I said kiss my ass, I meant the proposal to boycott Jewish businesses simply because they were Jewish. It seems eerily familiar, not to mention anti-semitic.

Further, take Bruce Fields’ advice and either participate in discussion or don’t post. This isn’t your private forum.

Two items: First to address those on this list that profess “two sides”. According to Jane’s information group:
Israel has 2,950 tanks … Palestine has zero
Israel has 231 F-16 fighter jets… Palestine zero
Israel has 48 Apache helicopters and 39 Huey helicopters … Palestine has zero
“Two sides” is like describing a football game between the Pittsburgh Steelers and Bach Elementary.

Second, if those on this list are referring to our synagogue vigils when they describe ”... your fanatical loonies screaming at little girls on their way to worship”, they owe us an apology or at least a visit. If the vigils are not implicated, then it is I who will apologize.

Israel is an apartheid, racist state that needs to be defunded, completely and now.

Henry:

“Israel is an apartheid, racist state that needs to be defunded, completely and now.” We’ve heard plenty of this from Blaine. I would love to debate you on a normal level on this topic, but when you flood the forum with hyperbolic statements like these, it’s hard to engage in honest discussions.

These are your opinions, and everyone knows no one could ever convince you of another. I don’t intend to. I would like honest discussion, but, like I said, it’s hard when you make these declarations. What are people supposed to say? We know your chorus is supposed to agree, but what about those who don’t?

This isn’t meant as a personal attack. Although I have always found the vigils to be morally reprehensible, I have no ill feelings towards you individually. I’m just saying I think the reason why people are apprehensive about engaging you is that they don’t perceive you or JWP as very open.

I don’t fit the mold of any of the groups represented in Ann Arbor in terms of the Arab-Israeli conflict. So while I stand in opposition to you, I also stand in opposition to right-wing Zionist settler nutjobs who want to drag the Middle East into World War III.

Please don’t personally attack me. I’m just trying to be honest.

Zio-Censor (AKA Blaine):

“You sure know how to close down any discussion of the Qana massacre.

So does your newspaper.

Your ‘Michigan Daily’ totally no-showed to the 2nd big divestment march to hit the U-M campus this summer.”

Talk to news. That’s their department, not mine. Like I said before, don’t use me to take potshots at the Daily. If you have a problem with me, come out and say it. If you have a problem with the Daily, write a letter to the editor. It may very well get published. A word of caution: if you fill the letter with empty rhetoric like you do on these forums, it has less likely a chance of being published. But that’s common sense.

Also remember, the paper is under a deadline. Since it is only a weekly paper, not everything could be covered, especially if it was on the weekend.

Jared and others:

As I’ve said before: I’m all for a good debate on this issue. But this is insane.

Blaine’s platform doesn’t deserve one iota of your time, let alone to be viewed and discussed alongside other intelligent, responsible positions. Giving fanatics like Blaine a place in the debate – even on a small time local message board – lends credibility to his otherwise radical positions.

Blaine and others like represent a small, but vocal minority – a minority that on this board has been allowed to dictate the terms of the debate, if one could even call this “debate.”

Blaine isn’t interested in dialogue. Blaine doesn’t care what you think. Stop giving Blaine what he wants.

Your so-called “vigils” have nothing to do with the Israeli-Arab conflict and everything to do with targeting Jews as Jews going to worship and meditate on the Sabbath. The last group of people who “vigiled” by synagogues and Jewish businesses urging boycotts of Jewish organizations, shops, and institutions and dehumanized the people who used and depended on those establishments, wore brownshirts and shouted “Sig Heil.” HH & BC and their JWP&F crew’s picketing Jewish institutions and carrying huge, hate-filled signs is eerily reminiscent of what those brownshirts did 60 and 70 years ago. Some people never learn the lessons of history. But when self-professed Jews do this, it’s truly obscene. No wonder you are on the pathological fringes of society. Heaven help us if you do ever become the mainstream—which, thank G-d, you’re far from now—like the sickos in Nazi Germany who, whether you realize it or not—you’ll certainly never wake up to see that obvious truth—inspired you in your current offensive, disingenuous, arrogant, aggressive campaign.

It is only one step further from the aggressive demonstrating—which only you, Henry Blaine, and Company, have the conceit to label as “respectful”—that pushes people even more deranged than you over the edge to attack synagogues, schools, and other Jewish institutions and the people therein as the recent shootings in Seattle, among too many other such incidents, demonstrate all too graphically. But, your lack of even thinking of condemning those and other violent actions against Jews whether in Washington State, Australia, France, or Israel demonstrates sharply how uneven, biased, and pathologically obsessed you are. You are blissfully untroubled by any violence against Jews and Israelis or any other group other than the one that your actions have done not a single thing to help. Sad to say, like too many in the group you profess to love, your craving to destroy Israel is far, far greater than your desire to find a peaceful, workable and rational solution to the problem or even for a stable Palestinian regime.

If anyone even suggested picketing a mosque because some people think they fund barbarous terrorist violence, the screams of racism and the rush to come to their defense would be deafening. And, that’s the way it should be. It should be the same in Ann Arbor when any house of worship is so defiled on the holiest day of the week for its congregation’s members by meddling, self-righteous outsiders. The City Council had the great wisdom to pass a resolution condemning your vile actions, but too many of the non-Jewish community have been silent over your Nazi-like—yes, I’m sorry, but it’s all-too applicable in this case—activities.

As Jared says, one cannot dialog with HH, BC, and JWP&F because they are firmly convinced that they and they alone have the monopoly on truth. Rather like the unelected “president” who thinks he has G-d’s voice in his ear telling him what to do and also like the fanatical extremists in some Moslem societies who spew hate like it was an endless, renewable resource, which sadly it is. I feel sorry for you all. You are so driven by hatred that you cannot see how truly multi-tiered and complicated the situation in the world really is. And, despite your blind thinking to the contrary, you are not doing a thing to make the situation better for anyone except your own super-sized egos.

“The world is watching you murderers. And I assure you they will respond appropriately to your calls for ‘debate.’”

Sorry, Daniel, (post # 68) you are so right, so after going against your and my better judgment, I submit this post, and by the remark I quote from post #69 just above, Blaine and the fringettes prove my and your and sane people’s point. Now, you and I are murderers for daring to contradict anything that Messrs. C & H say because only their_ view of the world is accurate. Well, Mr. “Think-You-Know-Everything-Better-Than-Thou,” you may be an obsessed, paranoid, psychopathic supporter of murderers, but no one has yet to call you an actual murderer. Talk about laying an obscene appellation on your perceived enemies. Of course, it’s to be expected from someone with your limited vision and inability to frame anything except along your very narrow hate-inspired viewpoint.

And talk about trying to influence the Internet debate! It’s OK for self-righteous air bandits like Blaine to do so, but no one else should dare ever raise a voice to say, “wait a minute, maybe you’re out of your mind,” which, of course, most people will agree, you certainly are.

Daniel is right, best to ignore you, rather than keep feeding your incredibly oversized ego. Of course ignoring the Nazis didn’t make them go away, but if we’re lucky, BC will never get their firepower. Anyway, unless the whole world turns into the new version of Nazi Germany, G-d forbid, you will never see your perverse dreams for the Middle East come to fruition.

Way to go with the usual name-calling, genius, but your iunsults and your “dream” will never be realized. Thank G-d that Israel has the strength to fend off the attacks of all its enemies. And millions of those Arabs don’t give a damn about your Palestinians anymore than you relly do. They’re just one more pawn in your game of smear and try to eliminate the only Jewish state from the face of the earth. Your and their Nazi ancestors didn’t succeed—although they came so close—and their heirs, Moslem and Arab terrorist, racist, antisemitic murderers and their supporters like you, won’t succeed either. You’re the one eho is choking on the sand of myopic hatred that you’re whole body and what’s left of your mind is buried in.

Since our friend likes to post articles verbatim, here’s a link without all the text pasted here:

Civilian Casualties as Propaganda Warfare: http://jewschool.com/?p=11000

Who are the ones who cynically, cowardly, and yes, diabolically hide behind civilians and indiscriminately throw them to the lions while they move around with their rockets and run and hide behind innocent babies, toddlers, children, the elderly, and other civilians as they launch their rockets toward Israel? Anyone whose eyes are open knows the truth. It’s the so-called “freedom fighters” known as Hezbollah and their ilk not Israel. And, by the way, multiple sides are offered on the site I cite, too. I’m sure that only those quotes that upheld the “intelligent discourse” of the JWP&F will be hurled back at us, however as we’re sure to be answered by another cut and paste job and/or mindless one-way slogans.

Mike:

If you agree with my earlier post, then just stop talking to him.

“Look up 60 UN resolutions against Israel and its atrocities in the region.”

And also all the ones violated by your friendly neighborhood Arab regimes who never ever commit any atrocities even against their own people according to you. The UN also mandated that Hezbollah be disarmed and dismantled. Since the UN can’t and won’t do the job any more or less than the feeble Lebanese army, Israel has to do it.

Israel is always the one being violently provoked and not the other way around. More than once it has overreacted, but in the face of constant attacks against its civilian population, it’s either stand there and keep taking it or do something. What would you do if your house was regularly attacked from across the Detroit River? Surrender or fight? Tell the (hypothetical) terrorists in Canada that you’re a racist and that they’re right to bomb your house and try to wipe you out?

The plain fact of the matter is and always has been that no one likes a Jew who fights back; they want Jews who are cowering and herded like cattle shipped off to their deaths.

And, if we need to be “healed” by the likes of you with your arrogant, patronizing comments about what does and what doesn’t constitute humanity, we’re in deep trouble. What you suggest is not healing, it’s called brainwashing.

Don’t keep using your BS vapid, completely fictitious “Apartheid,” “racist” Israel line, because it holds about as much water as a sieve. Until you admit that the real fundamental problem is that the despotic Moslem and Arab states and quasi-states in the region don’t want and never will tolerate a democratic Jewish state in their midst and that destruction of Israel is more important to them and you than peace in the region or even your vaunted Palestinian state, you will never see the whole picture, just your simplistic one-dimensional one.

And we know that Israel is made up of human beings who make plenty of errors and don’t always smell like roses, but you smell like the other stuff yourself when you paint a totally monochromatic portrait of Israel because short of total surrender to those “un-smelly,” “helpless” and “oppressed” “guardians of freedom” and completely “non-racist,” “Jew-loving” murderers, not a single one of whose actions you ever condemn, there’s nothing Israel could ever do that you would find agreeable to your sensibilities, just like there’s nothing your beloved racist Nazi heirs do against Jews and even other Arabs and Moslems and anyone else could ever muss your hair. If that isn’t a pile of smelly cow manure I don’t know what is.

I will do my best to not waste any more cyberspace on your pathetic whining, whinging, and antisemitic race-baiting twaddle. Back to work. You may have all day and all night to sling BS; I’ve had enough of trying to have an intelligent discussion with you, just as has virtually everyone rational in A2. I will now take your advice, Daniel. So, the JWP&Fers will probably get the last word, but it won’t be the last intelligent, reasoned one. So, enjoy your pathetic, little-brained obsession. We know it’s really all you have.

Yes, poor Qana, and poor Palestinians and Arabs who have you as their supporter. There I said it. I doubt—I can say this with virtually 100% certainty—that you’ll ever entertain even half a nano-thought about any of the innocent Israelis killed by your precious “freedom fighters.” The loss of all innocent life is tragic and that includes Israeli lives as well as Arab lives. Well, I broke my own vow pretty quickly, but whenever Blaine or one of his pseudonyms or clones weighs in, that last word will, as I said, always issue forth from a single dimension from the Twilight Zone of the JWP world of hate Israel and only Israel all-the-time and praise Arab terrorists and only Arab terrorists all-the-time.

Your own brain haunts you.

Thanks for always trying to do my thinking for me. It’s too bad you don’t do any thinking for yourself. Israel certainly shares the blame, but they share it with the provocative murderers of Hezbollah who will always hide and shoot from among the weakest and most unable to defend themselves even in Christian villages where they certainly are not wanted nor welcome. They know that this way no matter what happens they will win a precious PR victory no matter how many lives both Israeli and Arab such a pyrrhic “victory” costs.

As noted earlier and again at the signature link at the bottom of this note, Israel does indeed use Palestinians for human shields. If Hezbollah even does, more fool them, for obviously Israel has shown that it cares nothing about murdering civilians. Why then would Hezbollah endanger Lebanese civilians by using human shields.

“Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception.”

— Mark Twain
The Mysterious Stranger
1916

“Why then would Hezbollah endanger Lebanese civilians by using human shields.”

Because Hezbollah has utter disregard for the lives of civilians, whether Jew or Muslim, Israeli or Palestinian.

OK, it’s time to let the cat out of the bag….Blaine and Henry are actually schills for the Israeli government, sent to AA to look so ferociously retarded that anyone who sees them or hears their arguments automatically become Israel supporters.

There’s no other way to explain it….other than….they’re both remarkably, remarkably stupid.

Just so it’s clear, you’re no longer just an anti-Zionist – you’re now an anti-Semite and a bigot. Congratulations!

If we’re talking about laws and rules here, why don’t we refer to Darwin’s law? In that case, I am happy you won’t be reproducing. phew.

Meva + POV: Stop talking to him.

The truth is that despite the fact that Zionist controlled media reports just 13% of Palestinian children’s’ massacre and 88% of Israeli children’s deaths, the numbers tell a horrifying tale; for 121 Israeli children reportedly killed by Palestinians, close to 800 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis.

The truth is that while zero Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians, 25000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel and while two Israelis are being held prisoners by the Palestinians, 9,599 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.

The truth is that the great benefactor of Israel, the United States of America, gives more than $15 million per day to the Israeli government and military while the Palestinian NGOs get a miserly $232,290 per day to care for the victims of Israeli aggression.

The truth is that while Israel reportedly possesses upward of 400 WMDs, the Palestinian have none and while there are 65 UN resolutions against Israel, there are none against Palestinians

The truth is that while Israel bemoans that four rockets that fell on its territory were made in Iran, it has received upward of 17 billion dollars of arms from the United States alone over the last 10 years.

The truth is that virtually every bullet and every shrapnel that ricochets through the Palestinian’s flesh and blood is linked to the United States of America one way or the other.

Shameless beasts (ICPJ).

Do you think people of conscience do not see how you are supporting genocide by supporting Israeli war? Shame on you racists!

The world is watching you and you are more than ever exposed for the warmonger beasts that you are. Blood of thousands of your victims will not be in vain.

The truth is that you will pay for your atrocities and you will be sent to hell where you deserve to be.

Shameful killers of all centuries!

OK, we got the 10th verbatim cut-and-paste from urukinfo.net; I’ve asked for that to stop the previous 9 times, so at this point I assume whoever’s doing it just isn’t even reading the comments. So I’m just giving up and deleting any comments that consist entirely of cut-and-pastes from other articles.

This is not meant to discourage pointing out relevant articles: just do it by including a link or just the URL, and adding your own commentary and any relevant quotes from the article, instead of just quoting the entire article with no attribution or comments of your own. We welcome your commentary.

The story of a child spending the night at a morgue amongst the dead, and the murder of his sister, and his terrorized and brutalized family by Israel killing machine does not need my comments.

It is there for the Zionists on this site to see and know that their damage to the whole region will NEVER be forgiven.

Zaynab is dead but hundreds of people will avenge her. Israel is the terrorist state.

Israel is a bloodthirsty state, which will never have a day of rest as long as justice is ignored in the Middle East.

You blood thirsty beasts will never get our homeland or be allowed to destroy it further. We will fight you to the last drop of our blood and you shall be no more.

You should have learned form Vietnam and Iraq; your military might is not enough to brake a people who knows the truth is on her side.

You bluchers have not seen the last of it yet.

This world is not yours to destroy as you use up all its resources and deplete its inhabitants.

Shameful beasts; you messengers of death and destruction everywhere!

Humanity shall survive you as it always has and you Nazis like bluchers will end up in hell, where you deserve to be.

It was an unseemly end for 80- year-old Manaheel Jabr, flung over a bloodstained walll, grey hair falling around her shrunken black face, a collapsed ceiling pinning her down at the waist.

“It’s the grandmother,” one of the onlookers gasped when the civil defense bulldozer finally pierced a hole in the rubble of what was until two weeks ago a three-storey house.

Mrs Jabr’s corpse presented a terrible dilemma to the Lebanese Red Cross yesterday. Should they cut her in two, put the pieces in a body bag and take her to the hospital morgue, or leave her behind, in the hope that more powerful equipment could lift the concrete slab from her back and would reach her before the dogs did?

Israel is a terrorist state!

Stop. Just stop. Please. You aren’t winning converts. You aren’t helping your cause.

The situation is sad. It’s terribly sad. The entire state of the Middle East is lamentable and distressing. Nobody enjoys killing or death or war. Nobody.

Israel isn’t genocidal. And to use that term cheapens the word and cheapens your argument. Holocaust? Please.

Your inflammatory rhetoric gets you nowhere. Your screaming at children going to Israel Independence Day at the JCC gets you nowhere.

Reasoned discussion and acceptance of the fact that there are many sides to the current situation in the Middle East will open up dialogue.

But your constant hollering about “holocaust”, “genocide”, etc? It’s getting you nowhere.

Please stop. You’re becoming a parody of yourself and it’s destructive to the ends you hope to achieve—ends that many probably agree with.

You still have not made your point of why we should boycott Israel specifically and not call for a boycott on Islamic countries that support terror and discrimination against minorities.

I am not just talking about terror in Israel. I am talking about terror in Egypt, in Saudi Arabia and in the Far East in places like Bali. These attacks are the work of Muslim extremists primarily funded by places like Iran.

The Islamic clerics proclaim “we won’t stop until Islam is spread from Spain to Iraq”. Iran is a big proponent of such ideology. I don’t want to be Muslim yet it’s being pushed on me by radical Islamists just like you say Israel is pushing its way onto peoples in the Middle East.

I call for a boycott of racist Iran.

I say thank God for countries like Israel who are willing to fight this horrible threat of worldwide Islamic domination. Unless of course you would like to see women dressed from head to toe and not able to drive spread around the entire world and not just in Saudi Arabia.

This boycott Israel/Israel is like Nazis BS is just that…. BS. Your just a group of very angry, self-hating Jews who have nothing better to do then pick on a small little Jewish community. You and your group are pathetic.

I don’t get as angry as you because I know Israel is doing the right thing (despite the horrible civilian casualties which is totally the fault of Hezbola) and as always will come out victorious and then all of the Islamic slime they’ve uncovered will crawl back under their filthy rocks.

I feel so badly for the decent Muslims in the world. Their religion is being dragged through the mud by these horrible extremist thugs.

Stop talking to him.

Hezbola is a terrorist org. with it’s only goal being the complete destruction and annihilation of Israel.

It’s not as if there is much to negotiate with or that Hezbola is saying, well, if you give us some land to play on, we’ll leave you alone. They want Israel gone and they make it no secret. Any country with an enemy like that would attack. It does not matter if you agree or don’t agree. It’s just a fact.

As the world knows, one of the tactics of these Islamic terror groups is to use the most defenseless people as human shields because of their extreme cowardice.

These Islamic terror and death machines also bet on the fact civilized countries (like Israel and the West) who value human life will not dare attack an area where there are civilians.

If someone uses a house to fire a missile at a city, that house and its inhabitants become combatants. That house needs to be destroyed. There is no other choice.

The Israelis do more than most when it comes to warning civilians prior to strikes. They drop leaflets asking people to go north away from what is happening. No other country does this. I don’t remember Israelis getting the same treatment prior to an attack in their cities which was specifically targeted at killing civilians and had nothing to do with anything remotely strategic.

Islamic Jihad, Hamas and Hezbola don’t drop leaflets warning Israelis that they are going to perpetrate an attack designed only to murder innocents.

Israeli civilians are humans as well. You cannot say one group deserves to live and the other die because of an accident of birth.

If you look at exactly what has been bombed in the past few weeks, you will see it’s a limited area of the southern suburbs of Beirut and certain cities near the border with Israel.

Yes, these places are packed with people. But also packed with missile launchers pointed directly at Israel.

The majority of the city of Beirut is completely untouched.

The Israelis sure could have done far worse, proving they are going after ONLY certain targets. Hezbola is so cowardly that they hide behind little babies to get their work done.

I am against a cease fire because that would be placing a band-aid on something that needs a body cast. Hezbola wants Israel destroyed. A cease fire now will just give them time to rearm and this whole thing will happen again within a year’s time.

A few days ago, one of these Muslim clerics said that they will not stop until Islam is spread from Spain to Iran. I don’t think we should wait for them to spread their own version of the thousand year Reich throughout Europe and the West because then we are next.

When the US and Great Britain launched massive bombing campaigns over Berlin and fire bombings over Dresden during World War ll, thousands of innocent, probably Apolitical German citizens were killed and wounded. Was there an alternative there? Should we have allowed Hitler to spread his evil?

This fantasy you have about Israel being genocidal is nothing short of maniacal. It’s a complete fallacy concocted by left-wing extremists who in order to get people on their side need to lie and distort basic history. I challenge anyone to really look into the history of the Middle East, Zionism, the Arab/Israeli conflict and learn as opposed to listening to what the JWPF anti-Semitic racists have to say.

Good point, Daniel. You’re right. It’s just difficult not to answer these horribly distorted facts. But, you are 100% right. I will try. Thanks.

Okay, here’s a word about Qana. Qana rhymes with Rana with also rhymes with Mana. Okay, I commented on Qana.

Just so you know, it’s very amusing to get you so angry. Everyone is laughing at you.

I had a couple of my Arab budies take a look at your posts and even they think your a nut case.

Keep up your amusing posts. It’s a good read after a long day. Thanks, man.

Special Service at Beth Israel:
http://www.bethisrael-aa.org/

“Friday 6:00PM
[Sanctuary] We invite you to join us for a special Kabbalat Shabbat service on Friday evening, August 4 at 6 p.m. to join together in prayer, song and hope for the people of Israel and the entire Middle East.”

Once again,