Arbor Update

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To all who have felt a desire for change,

5. November 2004 • MarkDilley
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On November 3rd, George W. Bush, received a lot of “political capital”. He plans to use it. With our individual lives, we each possess our own human capital. I plan to use mine.

If we unite our power as people, change will no longer be something we talk about, or entrust to a single man in office.

This week, we all are having a circus of emotions. But this is good. Apathy was cool in 2000. Action is the need of tomorrow.

We meet on Saturday the 6th, at 7:00 p.m., in the basement of the Michigan Union, TAP Room. We meet to provide an outlet of support and progress for any and all of us, affected by this election. Whether you contributed time to either party, woke up at 4:30 a.m. to protect our constitution, spent the eve of the 2nd, glued to your television, whether we walked past the Kerry people on the diag, thinking, “I just can’t devote myself to this man,” whether we did and thought none of this, but believe that there is hope to create better lives for ourselves and those who possess a place in this earth as we each do, then show up.

There is a need to maintain the hopes of freedom and civil equality.

The time for movement is now. As our emotions are high, our actions will resonate.

Let us all be healthy and well,
Oren Goldenberg

Questions, email me,, 248-224-9063.

  1. Waste of time and energy.

    Just a week ago, you were all talking about how the youth vote was going to change the election. With all the money steered toward getting young people registered to vote and to the polls, the numbers were EXACTLY THE SAME as in 2000.

    I know that there’s this whole air of the 1960’s at UofM, where everyone thinks that if they just organize, they can make big change. Well, the world has changed a lot since the 60’s, the methods used to make change have changed themselves.

    And it’s nearly impossible to organize people.

    Remember BAMN? Remember Jessica Curtin? They had the commitment to change. They never went to class, they purposely took seven and eight years to graduate so that they could remain politically active without classes getting in the way.

    They put in all that effort, and nothing changed.

    It’s going to take a hell of a lot more than a handful of lazy, pretentious, selfish college students. If a bunch of people who don’t care at all about their schoolwork, who are willing to devote 16-20hrs a day to their cause cannot change a single damned thing, then what makes you think a handful of rich, snobbish resume stuffers trying to pull a four-and-out are going to?

    Answer: You’re not.

    Don’t take me the wrong way here. This is not a “subversive effort by the vast right wing conspiracy.” Have your meetings until you are blue in the face. All I am saying is that you’re not going to get anything accomplished. You will be wasting your time.

    Want to make change? Study. Apply for an internship with a senator or a rep. Network with people who have the same ambitions as you do. Lay the foundation for a political career, and get elected. THAT is how you make change. Organizing a handful of students to bitch and whine about an election is not.

    This little dose of reality paid for by someone who has been around the block a few times.
       —T.J.    Nov. 8 '04 - 02:42PM    #
  2. TJ, the fact that the organizing and mobilization that went into this election did not win the country for Kerry in no way means that it was ineffective. All other things remaining similar to 2000, then, yes, it would be an argument that it was wasted effort. Very little remained similar, though—the reason that Kerry lost is because just as many people were organized and mobilized against him as for him.

    You’re very right that the methods of organizing have changed since the 60s. After all, how much money was raised by campaigns in the 60s via websites? None! The fact that people raised so much money online this year shows that people are adapting their methods, though very slowly. (Why wasn’t Al Gore tapping the internet for cash more heavily?)

    Anecdotal evidence of one organizing effort not achieving what the organizers wanted is hardly evidence that all organizing is useless. You’re going to need a much larger sample size to make that assertion, and, even then, you’ll only have proved that organizing efforts identical in method to those that have been tried don’t work. There’s always room for innovation in social movements, and having a large number of social movements will maximize the opportunities for innovation—you should be making that argument. Aren’t you the libertarian here?
       —Murph    Nov. 8 '04 - 03:40PM    #
  3. I am not a libertarian. Not at all. Libertarians are like bisexuals. At least Liberals have the integrity to stand for what they believe in. They pick a side. Libertarians are basically anti-everyone. Seems like Nader and the Libertarian Party are a match made in Heaven.

    Can you come up with one significant, national change that has happened as the result of “organizing” a political group on a college campus since the Civil Rights Movement? Or ever, for that matter?

    You just spent five minutes typing a response to my post, essentially defending the ridiculously weak assertion. A waste of time.

    Is there a chance that organizing a bunch of resume stuffers could somehow cause eventual change? Yeah, and I could win the lottery.

    Neither is going to happen. The difference is, it takes a minute and a half to buy a lottery ticket. Meanwhile, these clowns will waste an hour or more.

    Say 20 people show up and sit there for an hour. Imagine all the good you could do with that time. Imagine the positive work you could do with a 20 person crew in just an hour. 20 man hours.

    But they were wasted on a hate group meeting. Swell.
       —T.J.    Nov. 8 '04 - 04:45PM    #
  4. “Can you come up with one significant, national change that has happened as the result of “organizing” a political group on a college campus since the Civil Rights Movement? Or ever, for that matter?”


       —Adam    Nov. 8 '04 - 07:57PM    #
  5. My bad i just read the part about college campuses.

    I still think you should get off this board. It’s not like we are about to convince each other… ever
       —Adam    Nov. 8 '04 - 07:58PM    #
  6. I’m glad the level of discourse on this site is so high and professional.
       —Brandon    Nov. 8 '04 - 10:15PM    #
  7. Funny how someone who represents the party that is constantly bashing the right for attacks on the First Amendment would make an attempt to squelch the voice of a dissenter. Hmh.

    Hypocrisy anyone?

    Adam, you just relinquished your right to call people on the right “fascists” now, since you just espoused a fascist attack. Good day to you.
       —T.J.    Nov. 9 '04 - 12:49AM    #
  8. No, TJ, he didn’t. Maybe you should bother to learn about what Fascism is before talking out yer ass. I mean, I know ignorance has never stood in the way of your commenting before, but why don’t you just try being right for once, to throw us all off?
    Name one issue that campus activism has changed? Well, there’s the acknowledgement of the AIDS crisis, which had a large campus activism base. There’s been significant progress on gay rights. There have been hundreds of programs around the country that have remained funded (or recieved funding to begin with) because of college activism.
    Here’s one for you: What major victories have not been attributable to interest group organization? Not just since civil rights, but ever?
    (Oh, and the number that you’re thinking of as the same is 17%. That’s the portion of the vote that young people garnered in 2000 and in 2004. About 6 million more young people came out and voted, however. It was just lost in the larger turnouts for all demographics).
    C’mon, Teej, at least put some effort into your bullshit. I’ve given you three points to respond to. Step up to the plate.
       —js    Nov. 10 '04 - 03:47PM    #
  9. And really, who wants TJ to shut up and leave? I am certainly amused by his wacky, twisted take on things… If he pisses you off, you’re taking him entirely too seriously—next time something he says gets you in a huff, read his post as if Scrappy Doo were speaking to you… =)
       —Scott T.    Nov. 10 '04 - 06:30PM    #
  10. Hey guys, Kerry won in Michigan.
    Perhaps you have a plan for persuading the Reds in other states that partial-birth abortions aren’t murder, and that our affairs foreign and domestic would be run by someone whose positions on major issues sound consistent from speech to speech?
       —Disha    Nov. 12 '04 - 08:37AM    #
  11. Disha, while Kerry did win in Michigan, it was more “squeaked by” than “won”. And “we” here in Michigan passed a sweeping constitutional ban on gay marriage or anything resembling it. Our State Legislature, our State Supreme Court, and various other high offices (Secretary of State) are controlled by conservatives and Republicans. Much as I admire those who spent their time helping out in Ohio, I feel like we have some consolidation of our position to do in Michigan before we can really intensively help those working in other states.
       —Murph    Nov. 12 '04 - 12:04PM    #