Arbor Update

Ann Arbor Area Community News

U.K. Emergency Number

7. July 2005 • Ari Paul
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If anyone has loved ones in London and need to confirm their saftey after today’s subway attacks, the British police have set up this phone line: 44-0870-1566-344.

-From the Nation’s website.



  1. Thanks for doing this Ari.

    By the way, here is the
    British Red Cross emergency appeals/disaster fund page at http://www.redcross.org.uk/standard.asp?id=40653 , if anyone wants to donate. I did earlier today, if I can say that.
       —David Boyle    Jul. 7 '05 - 06:17PM    #
  2. Looks like it’s happened again… sorta: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4703853.stm
       —Matt Hollerbach    Jul. 21 '05 - 09:31AM    #
  3. ArborUpdate seems very, very concerned that 58 Londoners are dead.

    Are you equally concerned at the 4,000 Palestinians dead, at the 4 million Palestinians suffocating under Israeli military tyranny?

    Why no public concern that plainclothes cops can chase and murder any Muslim, any time, now in London?

    I thought you guys at least pretended to be for human rights, labor rights, etc.

    Do you see Muslims as human?

    Why do you never write about what is happening to them?

    The “Asian-looking” man the cops shot was innocent, and had no way of even knowing it was cops who were chasing him.

    Why no concern that 4,000 Palestinians, and up to 2 million Iraqis have just been killed the same way, by Israel and the United States?

    Does anybody care, that 1.2 billion Muslims are facing genocide——in Palestine,—in Iraq,—now possibly in England too?

    In case you didn’t hear the news:

    London plainclothes cops, operating on Israeli, Russian, and U.S. advice, have just shot an innocent man, for looking “Asian” and “suspicious”:

    http://news.ft.com/cms/s/eef42738-fa78-11d9-a0f6-00000e2511c8.html

    )

    *********************

    Does anybody care, even enough to demand a simple cosmetic gesture like divestment from Israel?

    * Judging by the mass media sobbing for 58 dead Londoners, accompanied by mass silence on thousands of dead Palestinian, and mass silence on millions of dead Iraqis,

    * Judging by ArborUpdate’s jumping to the aid of stricken Londoners, and by ArborUpdate’s massive dead silence on 4,000 dead Palestinains,

    * It looks like 1.2 billion Muslims are heading straight for a genocide, while ArborUpdate and most other white “peace” types do NOTHING.

    Is it even imaginable that you’ll march for Palestine, for divestment, before the last Palestinian is killed?

    ******************************

    You ask:

    “Why should I stick my neck out?
    “Why should I put down my beer and pick up a cardboard protest sign?”

    Because Israeli genocide against Palestine, combined with U.S. and British genocide against Iraq, require you to protest now—while you are still able to open your mouth:

    Because a gang of plainclothes white guys can now chase and murder a dark-skinned man anywhere on Earth, even cute little London, with its supposedly unarmed cops, with impunity.

    Because it’s been announced that an “Asian-looking” man, shot dead yesterday by plainclothes cops in London, had nothing to do with any crime.

    He was simply frightened at being chased by white guys, and ran into a subway station to get some safety.

    The gang of plainclothes white guys chasing him grew to 20.

    Of course he ran.

    Don’t wait until every Muslim on Earth is running away from a white Israeli, U.S., and British posse:

    Demand divestment from Apartheid Israel, home of the shoot-to-kill-Muslims doctrine, before it’s too late.

    Show some leadership, for God’s sake.

    Don’t just let 1.2 billion Muslims die like rabbits.

    In case you don’t believe me, read about who gave Britain its shoot-to-kill-Muslims doctrine.

    ************************

    “Man shot dead ‘not connected to terror attacks’ ”

    “Financial Times” (U.K.)

    Published: July 22 2005 11:36 | Last updated: July 22 2005 17:42

    On the Web at:
    http://news.ft.com/cms/s/eef42738-fa78-11d9-a0f6-00000e2511c8.html

    “The man shot dead in south London on Friday is not connected to attempted terror attacks on the capital, said police. The statement came as it emerged that police have been given secret new shoot-to-kill guidelines in recent weeks….

    ”...The shooting happened in Stockwell on Friday morning when armed plain clothes police officers shot a man as he tried to board a train at the underground station. He had emerged from a house under surveillance following Thursday’s attempted bomb attacks on three Tube trains and a bus.

    “New shoot-to-kill guidelines for armed police and surveillance officers confronting suspected suicide terrorists advise them to shoot to the head and not the body in case the suspect has a bomb.

    ”...The admission by the police that the dead man was not connected to the terror attacks will stoke debate over counter-terrorism tactics and the implication that police were operating a so-called “shoot-to-kill” policy against suspected terrorists

    “On Friday night the London-based Islamic Human Rights Commission called for a public enquiry into the shooting in Stockwell. ‘This is an extra-judicial killing by police who have been trained in shoot-to-kill,’ it said….

    ”...A spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers said on Friday night a ‘special project group had developed operational tactics to help police respond swiftly and effectively to such threats’. The guidelines were secretly developed in consultation with police forces including Israel, Russia and the US.”
    ———————————
       —Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 23 '05 - 03:15PM    #
  4. “ArborUpdate seems very, very concerned that 58 Londoners are dead.”

    Blaine. In your infinite wisdom, did it occur to you that some of the 58 dead Londoners were Muslims? You don’t have to check, quite a few were indeed Muslims, Blaine. Is it OK now for us to mourn their deaths?

    Just checking.
       —todd l.    Jul. 23 '05 - 03:51PM    #
  5. Yeah.

    Did it occur to you that out of 2 million dead Iraqis, almost 2 million were Muslims?

    Did it occur to you that out of 4,000 dead Palestinians, way over 3,000 were Muslims?

    Can you take a step back, and question why the “security” of so many millions of now-dead Muslims is never a matter of ArborUpdate concern?

    I expect to see ArborUpdate continue with its proud tradition of looking out for the 58 dead in London, while ignoring the 4,000 dead in occupied Palestine.

    The fact that ArborUpdate is a “community” of almost all white guys should not mean that your world of action and concern is limited to the ivory shades of the spectrum.
       —Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 23 '05 - 05:01PM    #
  6. to be fair (as the person who posted the uk number), the rationale for that was that i knew many ann arborites and the former ann arborites who participate in this blog may know people in london (turned out, i was right, and quiet a few people got use out of that post)...blaine, if there are numbers people in the states can call, or a website to check, if there loved ones in iraq or palestine are the victims of terrorist attacks, feel free to forward it on to me…

    off i go,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 23 '05 - 09:51PM    #
  7. Ari,

    You’re right, according to the definitions used by the mass media.

    By the definitions accepted by the media, including “ArborUpdate”, the millions of murdered Iraqis and Palestinians are not considered victims at all, because the media does not consider either Israel or the U.S. to be “terrorists”.

    Problem solved.
    Only whites get to be “victims”, with special numbers to call and check on their safety.

    That seems to be ArborUpdate’s philosophy.

    I was hoping it wasn’t yours, too.

    There was a time when you were concerned to protect the lives of Palestinians, publicly, in the “Daily”.

    I guess I should be grateful for that much.
       —Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 23 '05 - 10:47PM    #
  8. dude, blaine, you have chill out…au is to be a resource for the ann arbor community (or in my case, for former ann arborites who still care)...the number for the uk bombing was relevent because so many u-m students have connections to london…in the same light, the au reports on stories from iraq and palestine when they have local connects…

    you may remember for example, au’s exclusive coverage of fadi kiblawi’s arrest in the west bank and links to david enders (formerly of the daily) reports from iraq…

    yes, i do care about palestine, very much, in fact, in the same way i care a lot about tibet, darfur, gujarat, etc…it is true that you don’t see that from the in the daily anymore, by virtue of the fact that i now longer work there…

    if you’d like to see what’s going on my way (shameless self-promotion to follow), then pick up the latest issue of political affairs and cehck out my interview with indian human rights attorney sona khan…you can also get back issues of my column from citizen culture on the magazine’s website…

    and as always, there’s my blog, atrain.gnn.tv (no “www”)...

    one question on palestine, blaine…you often refer to it as genocide…i read somewhere that there has been a steady increase in population by arabs in the west bank in gaza since the occupation began in 1967…how is that genocide??? its an honest question…

    thanks,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 24 '05 - 06:22PM    #
  9. Ari,

    You can easily find the United Nations definition of “genocide”, on the U.N. site at:

    http://www.un.org/icc/crimes.htm#genocide

    ”. . . Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

    # killing members of the group;
    # causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    # deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    # imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
    # forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”

    Surprised?

    I think the word “genocide” applies well to what’s happening to Palestine, since ‘48, since ‘67, and today.

    The definition of genocide does not rely on numbers killed, but on killing or other actions designed to eliminate a nationality as a nationality.

    If you believe that Israel’s actions against Palestine, 1947 until today, were purely motivated purely by self-defense, then you and Israel are both off the hook, and you no longer need to care or act.

    You’re smart enough to know that “self-defense” against a population you are INVADING and OCCUPYING doesn’t count as self-defense.

    But if you count all that as “self-defense” anyway, then Mazeltov. You’re off the hook.

    And if you imagine Palestinians are multiplying like rabbits, hardly noticing the thousands and thousands killed by Israel, hardly noticing the mass robbery of their land, then Mazeltov again.

    You can sleep easily in that case, and get busy over Tibet.

    I do miss the old Ari, though.
       —Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 24 '05 - 07:18PM    #
  10. i read the definition…hm, i guess that would make both the israelis and the palestinians guilty of genocide, or attempted genocide…sadly, if that is true, it means neither side could ever really be legitimate…

    nevertheless, because israel occupies palestine, i still think the shoe is on israel’s foot to stop the violence, not the other way around…

    i don’t quite know what is meant by the old ari…if that means that i’m somehow a “zionist” or somehow “anti-palestinan” or a “sell out” or whatever because i posted a phone number for people to call because they might have loved ones in london, and didn’t end it with a rant about palestine, then so be it…

    if ever writing or posting about a political topic other than palestine is some sort of crime, then jail all of us…

    if even when talking about palestine, and being symothetic to the palestinian cause (which i am) and going apapletic about it and forcing often anti-semitic samantics to vilify issue means we’re somehow blind, get us a seeing eye dog, because frankly, these attacks on our inability to call for blood when it comes to palestine are just getting old…

    back to work,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 25 '05 - 02:01PM    #
  11. Ari,

    You know what I meant, and you addressed it:

    The occupying power has the duty to just stop it, to stop the situation they created.
       —-Blaine. (Palestine).    Jul. 25 '05 - 05:29PM    #
  12. Blaine, Blaine, Blaine. Way to make Palestineans seem less sympathetic by being an attention-seeking dick.
    C’mon, Blaine, if you’re going to derail this into Palestine, why aren’t you concerned about the genocide in Darfur? Why aren’t you taking China to task for its reeducation camps and repression? Why aren’t you concerned about Myanmar’s actual genocide of Hmong?
    I mean, if your point is that there are more instances of other people dying, why aren’t you trying to rectify all of the problems all at once, Blaine? I mean, that’s why you’re upset at Arbor Update, right?
    (I do get a kick out of you thinking this blog is somehow part of the mainstream media. I think it’s just another dodge to make you feel more important than you are).
    Genocide in Palestine? Boy, your glasses sure are polarized, aren’t they, Blaine?
    I’m not even gonna try to appease you, you gibbering ass-hat, you who try to derail every discussion into one about your issue (and by extension you). I’m not going to play like Ari did and try to condemn both sides. You know why? Because that would be a waste of my time. This isn’t the forum for it, this isn’t the thread for it.
    This was a thread for people who were concerned about friends and relatives in London. I’m sorry, Blaine, but more people here know Londoners than they know Palestineans. And they shouldn’t have to apologize for that, Blaine, especially not when it’s a tense time and people are more worried about friends and relatives than politics.
    If you don’t like that, you can take your little stump speech sideshow and shove it up your ass, Blaine. Start your own damn website, you whiny son-of-a-bitch, if you don’t like this one. Or get it through your thick fuckin’ skull that this is Arbor Update, not Gaza Update. Show some class for once, you moron.
       —js    Jul. 25 '05 - 06:03PM    #
  13. Joshua,

    I think you should examine why London talk (not Palestine talk) goes down smooth with you, as “apolitical”, all about “friends” .

    England= Class.
    Palestine (to quote your epithets)= “Dick”, “Ass-Hat”, Son-of-a-bitch”, “Thick fuckin skull”, “Moron”.

    Your reactions to Palestine talk mean something.

    You may already know that speaking of Palestinians, as if they count, as if they’re human, can result in surprisingly violent reactions, here and elsewhere.

    Those reactions, in terms of violent, obscene, personal abuse, are something I’ve never seen elsewhere on ArborUpdate.

    That makes me want to ask why.

    Why?

    You will say that I myself am so odious that it makes you cuss.

    But no…

    ...It means something about who counts as human, in your eyes.

    I have crossed some line, in your eyes, by speaking of Palestinians in 2005 as if they were Jews in Germany, 1933.

    ...As if they are in danger.

    ...As if they matter.
       —Blaine    Jul. 25 '05 - 06:53PM    #
  14. “Those reactions, in terms of violent, obscene, personal abuse, are something I’ve never seen elsewhere on ArborUpdate.”

    Where’s Mandrake when we need him?
       —peter honeyman    Jul. 25 '05 - 09:58PM    #
  15. Ah, Blaine. I had forgotten your inability to read before flying off the handle. I should have known that things that would be simple to those of us who don’t have the social handicaps of full-blown Asberger’s wouldn’t translate to Blaine the Martyr.
    Class = Not trying to derail an attempt to help victims of tragedy, no matter what tragedy, into a discussion of your own pet issue. I know I’m being trolled here by someone who I suspect actually wants to harm the Palestinean cause. I suspect, Blaine, that if you actually wanted to help Palestineans, you’d comport yourself in an entirely different matter. I suspect, Blaine, that you are a closet Zionist troll.
    But, to clear this up:

    Palestine = Totally irrelevant.

    Blaine = “Dickâ€?, “Ass-Hatâ€?, Son-of-a-bitchâ€?, “Thick fuckin’ skullâ€?, “Moron”.

    Are we more clear now, Blaine? My reaction is against you, and has nothing to do with Palestine, you retard. My reaction is not about “Palestine talk” or your deranged analogy between German Jews and the Palestineans.
    Perhaps this will help you, Blaine.
    Imagine a town meeting, right after a building has collapsed. People are seeking information about their families and friends, when someone stands up and starts shouting about how they don’t care about the Tsunami victims because they’re not talking about it right then. The reaction would not be against the Tsunami victims, but against the insensitive jackass who presumed to lecture. Are we a bit clearer?
    Or, to put it in a cruder form: If someone shits on my floor, my reaction is against the shitter, not the corn in their stool, no matter how much the shitter wants the corn to be the issue.
    And, frankly, if this personal abuse makes your tiny little eyes quiver with tears, good. You fucking retard, Blaine. You need more abuse heaped onto you until you understand that this has nothing to do with Palestineans or Jews or who I consider human. It has to do with an obnoxious, obtrusive asshole getting called out for being one. Fuck off, Blaine. Rightly fuck off, you crypto-Zionist troll.
       —js    Jul. 26 '05 - 12:51PM    #
  16. Oh, and before you reply again, you still owe me an answer to why I should care about Palestineans more than people in Darfur or Iraq.
    You also might want to show a modicum of comprehension as far as why those conflicts wouldn’t be germane here either.
    Jackass.
       —js    Jul. 26 '05 - 12:53PM    #
  17. Joshua,

    To answer your question:

    Because the U.S. has given over $100 billion to Israel, to crush Palestine like Hitler crushed the Warsaw Ghetto.

    That’s why Palestine is an issue that should receive more attention here.

    Here is where they are being destroyed.

    You pay for it, so you should be ready to campaign against the destruction of the Palestinian people.

    If you care enough.
       —Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 26 '05 - 02:31PM    #
  18. the us has also given that much (if not more?) to egypt (they ain’t any better to the palestinans…we also give billions to colombia, who are killing and knapping everybody to the left of attila the hun…everytime you buy any good marked “made in china” you are funding the ethnic cleansing of tibetans, manchus, mongolians, and urgors (spell?...and their muslims, too)...

    not to mention how much money were’ pumping into the iraq to kill iraqis…

    hey, interesting fact: jordon killed more palestinians in one day than israel has ever…that day is killed black september…there was also a movement to commorate the slaughter of the palestinians by the jordonians…they killed israelis in munich in 72…

    you know, i’m pro-palestine, in that i want a just, democratic, and independent palestinian state…that may or may not include right of return…all i do know is that be that as it may, i can’t go in for this myopic “hate israel for everything ever and forget about anything else”...

    fin,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 26 '05 - 04:08PM    #
  19. Blaine: Wrong.
    A better knowledge of history and politics might serve you better.
    Oh, and further, there’s more money going to Iraq, and more people dying there. Maybe if you didn’t hate Jews so much, Blaine, you’d have a little more perspective.
    (Or, again, this is more likely the work of someone who wants to discredit the Palestineans).
       —js    Jul. 26 '05 - 04:20PM    #
  20. “Those reactions, in terms of violent, obscene, personal abuse, are something I’ve never seen elsewhere on ArborUpdate.”

    How’s this. Blaine, you’re a shit-encrusted anti-Semitic boil on the ass of a gangrenous monkey. Fuck you.

    And my fiancee was in London that day. She walks each morning through the neighborhoods where two of the subway stations and the bus were. I was very happy to learn that she was alive, though I had already heard from her when I saw Ari’s post. If she hadn’t yet contacted me, you can bet your ass I would have dialed that number immediately. So thank you, Ari.

    Does that make me, in your conspiritorial, paranoid, world view, also a hater of Palestinians? Cause speaking of paranoid, your fixation on this one, one, one issue suggests some pretty ugly things about yourself.

    If I call him a Nazi does that mean this thread is over? Because I’m really sick of his shit.
       —Parking Structure Dude!    Jul. 26 '05 - 04:28PM    #
  21. All the oppressed people you mention (like Colombians) are obviously oppressed.

    Demand a cutoff of aid to Colombia, or to the military’s “School of the Americas” (SOA), in any peace group, ANY peace group, and you’ll have a sympathetic hearing, total agreement, no controversy.

    Those peace groups proudly go to JAIL protesting aid to the SOA.

    -BUT, when it comes to millions of obviously occupied Palestinians, who are, yes, obviously oppressed by grace of massive U.S. help to their oppressors…

    ...When it comes to Palestinians, NO major peace group in the whole United States can make any big public campaign to cut off aid to Israel, without furious opposition by Zionists.

    So: No major peace group does demand an end to U.S. aid to Israel.

    So: Out of 535 members of the U.S. Congress, not one, not one, demands a cutoff of aid to Israel.

    Out of hundreds of major U.S. newspapers, not one demands a cutoff of aid to Israel.

    In fact, in my entire life, I have never, ever seen any mass media discussion of whether to cut off aid to Israel.

    The entire media, the ENTIRE media, acts like there’s some squabble between “both sides”, when only Israel gets billions and billions every year, for generations, to crush Palestine.

    So even an educated person, like Ari,

    *who intellectually knows that 4,000 Palestinians have been killed just since he entered college,

    *who intellectually knows of Israel’s nuclearized military superpower status,

    *who intellectually knows hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children are seriously malnourished due to Israeli army blockades,

    *who’s tuned into Colombia

    *who’s tuned into into every oppressed nationality in China,

    finds just one fact about Palestinians that he just can’t get out of his head:

    “they killed israelis in munich”.
    “they killed israelis in munich”.
    “they killed israelis in munich”.
    “they killed israelis in munich”.
    —————————
    I’m asking you to question a media that can do that to you.
       —Blaine. Palestine    Jul. 26 '05 - 04:45PM    #
  22. You’re sick, Dude. Do you even let up when you’re fucking your woman? Or are you like, thrust (Palestine), thrust (Palestine), thrust (Palestine), “Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my GOOOOOD—I’m about to— DIVeeeeest.”
       —Parking Structure Dude!    Jul. 26 '05 - 04:53PM    #
  23. blaine,

    firstly, as you may or may not know, the u.s. government and the u.n. also gives aid to palestinian authority…in fact, as we speak, a friend of mine is getting ready to travel to palestine to work with the p.a. in reforming the proto-state appartus to ensure that whatever palestinan state emerges will be a democratic one…

    right, the media and the congress have never voted to divest…but again, here you go reducing the cause to one method…you will see, for example, liberals and conservatives in the media and in the congress who have supported the following settlement pullout and the creation of a palestinian state…

    i think you missed my point about munich…my point, and i’ll just come out and say it, is that the pro-palestinan extreme doesn’t really care about the welfare of palestinians, they care about landing a blow on israel…its israel’s fault when jordan kills and mistreats palestinans, or when lebanon does it, or kuwait blah blah blah…this doesn’t excuse israel from the things that it does, but this whole discussion is more about “how much shit can we talk about israel” rather than “how can we create life better for the palestinans”

    divestment is one (be it extreme) avenue…much like boycotting china is nearly impossible, the idea of cutting off aid to israel is unfair in that it vilifies the civilians who are not guilty and will hurt the palestinians as much as it will israel…but then again, the stance of many of the arab states has been to just hurt israel AND the palestinans, thus perpetuating the cycle of violence…bravo…

    gotta go,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 26 '05 - 05:01PM    #
  24. Thanks, Ari,

    The same arguments were used against divesting from South Africa:

    * Africans were MUCH MORE oppressed by Idi Amin than by John Vorster, says the argument.

    * “Divestment will only hurt Africans”, and you DO want a better life for them… don’t you?

    * Apartheid South Africa still has thousands of Mozambicans lining up for jobs… and “you DO want a better life for them… don’t you?”
    ————————-

    But the existence of a racist, colonial occupier is bad for everybody.

    Colonial powers tend to support brittle dictatorships like Jordan’s (and yes, Israel did enable the Black September massacres you wrote about. Israel, in an unpublicized agreement with King Hussein, placed its forces on alert. The U.S. sent naval units to the eastern Mediterranean to reinforce the Sixth Fleet, to back up Hussein while he continued masscring Palestinians.)

    Racism is bad, colonialism is bad, even when it has a booming economy for the colonial occupiers, even when it has a nice Parliament for the colonial occupiers.

    Ask India if they want British rule back.

    Even ask India in the 1970’s when Indira Gandhi declared her own personal dictatorship for a while.

    Racist, violent, colonial occupation, whether by Britain or by Israel, does much harm that’s not excused away by bad government on the part of “Arab States”.

    Ask Palestinians how they feel about divestment, even knowing that Israelis will not suffer the brunt of it.

    They are for it.

    As Black South Africans were.
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 26 '05 - 05:36PM    #
  25. Nice one, PSD. “DIVeeest!” Heh.
       —js    Jul. 26 '05 - 05:46PM    #
  26. Lots of hilarious humor here, at the expense of 4 million Palestinians.

    Why no belly-laughs about 58 dead Londoners?

    I come back to the same question:

    Who do you count as human, really and fully human?
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 26 '05 - 06:10PM    #
  27. Blaine: No, I was laughing at you, douchebag. “DIVeeeeeest!” Heh. I’m not sure why you think that we’re talking about Palestineans. Just because you’re always nattering on about them doesn’t mean that we are, Blaine. YOU! YOU! YOU! Retard.
       —js    Jul. 26 '05 - 06:35PM    #
  28. Joshua has it right:

    Palestinians count for less than nothing on ArborUpdate.

    In fact, “we” are not even willing to talk about them.

    Only about those precious, precious 58 white people in London.
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 26 '05 - 06:40PM    #
  29. Yes, Blaine. In this thread they count for less than nothing. In the threads where we explicitly deal with Palestine, they’re relevant.
    Guess what? The plight of the Palestineans is also totally irrelevant to discussions over the new school, or parking structures or what I had for lunch.
    Why might that be, Blaine? Why wouldn’t the persecution of Palestineans come up when I was choosing between peanut butter and jelly and a cheese on rye? Why wouldn’t that be an issue? I dunno, Blaine, maybe you could tell me?
    “DIVeeeeeest!” Some of us can come without thinking of Gaza, Blaine. You might like to try it sometime.
    (I do, however, like that you use my full name. Do you think I’m Jewish, Blaine?)
       —js    Jul. 26 '05 - 06:54PM    #
  30. Joshua,

    To answer your question, I don’t know whether you’re Jewish, and I’m not asking.

    I’m a Jew.

    And I know a Nazi when I see one:

    * Ariel Sharon, for example, especially after the Sabra and Shatila massacres.

    * The Israeli occupation army, for example.

    I don’t like Nazis.

    Surrounded by such disregard for Palestinians, not only on ArborUpdate, makes me feel unsafe.

    It makes me feel that no one is safe, certainly not me, to see peaceniks turn their backs on Palestine way too easily.

    Maybe that helps you see why I feel the way I do.
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 26 '05 - 08:00PM    #
  31. once and for all:

    the day this post went up, several bombs went off in london and i knew that many of our readers would have loved ones, friends, etc (ummm, myself included) in london…thus, this post was relevant…

    and i didn’t end it with “and israel sucks”...shame on me…

    do a search, and you will find plenty of posts about palestine when it has been in the interests of our readers…

    if you want and all palestine all the time blog, this isn’t it…sorry, its news for ann arborites (and former aaers, such as myself)

    as for the nazis…i will say there is something to be said for some eery overlap between ideology in certain strands of zionism and nazism…however, let’s be serious for a moment, i’ll pose a question open to everyone:

    where do you think the books “mein kompf” and “protocls of the elders of zion” sell better: tel aviv or ramallah? discuss…

    back to ya’ll,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 26 '05 - 08:30PM    #
  32. as for jokes about the london bombings:

    the night after that happened the bar i was in was playing “london’s burning” by the clash…we all raised pints…

    carry on,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 26 '05 - 08:31PM    #
  33. Ari,

    Since you asked…

    If we go by your assumption that somehow Palestinians are anti-Semites, for some unfathomable reason (like your example of overdosing on Czarist forgeries):

    Does that make it OK to rob millions of Palestinians of their homes, to suffocate them, to crush them under occupation, and to murder thousands of them on their own land in Palestine?
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 26 '05 - 08:38PM    #
  34. where do you think the books “mein kompf” and “protocls of the elders of zion” sell better: tel aviv or ramallah? discuss…

    A more worthwhile question might be, “Why do they sell where they do?”

    Discussion of “where” will likely result in (more) labeling, name-calling, finger-pointing, and taking sides. Providing only two choices will almost certainly result in some sort of competition. Discussing “why” would more likely result in increased mutual understanding and positive consideration of all perspectives—fodder for collaboration, not competition.

    Thanks for the (at least partially) educational exchange, Ari and Blaine.
       —Steve Bean    Jul. 26 '05 - 08:56PM    #
  35. blaine,

    firstly, i made no such assumption…i simply asked a question…calling all palestinians “anti-semites” would be wrong on many levels…unfortunately, anti-jewish hatred runs wild in the middle east, especially in palestine, what with all those groups like hamas saying “death to the jews” and all…

    as for you question, no that wouldn’t make it okay…that wasn’t what we were talking about…

    educational,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 26 '05 - 09:18PM    #
  36. js: (I do, however, like that you use my full name. Do you think I’m Jewish, Blaine?)

    Brilliant, js!

    I have three, maybe four theories about Blaine.

    1. He’s unhinged.

    2. He’s an unhinged retrograde Jew hater posing as a “compassionate protector of the Palestinian people”. This is obviously the most likely scenario.

    3. He’s an unhinged wacko Zionist with some notion that posing as an unhinged retrograde Jew hater will, through some Swiftian/satirical formula, make the Palestinian cause look absurd. This is sick, and it happens to be my favorite theory, but not the most likely. I’m just not sure there are any unhinged wacko Zionists with such well-developed senses of irony. I could be wrong.

    And now, based on Blaine’s sudden insistence that he’s actually Jewish, I’m also going to propose number 4.

    4. He’s a “Self-Loathing Jew”. A creature that literature insists exists, and which is exploited by people who pretend to be said creature, but which I’ve never actually encountered in the real world. And why is the Self-Loathing Jew such a popular type? Why, Blaine? Why? Why? Why? (Blaine likes it when you repeat things) Because fucking anti-Semites like you perpetuate the stereotype because you wish there were such a thing. As though Jews had some special reason for hating themselves. Why no Self-Loathing Lutherans (Outside of Bergman movies)? Why no Self-Loathing Jains? Why no Self-Loathing Atheists? Only Jews seem to ever fall into this trap. Maybe that’s why they invented Psychotherapy, hunh, Blaine? To get over their self-loathing? You cock-sucking pig. You rhinoceros schlong. You Jew wanna-be.
       —Parking Structure Dude!    Jul. 27 '05 - 09:25AM    #
  37. Blaine,

    You know, the sad thing is, you’ve convinced me that there really isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that there will ever be peace in the middle east.

    Let me ask a few blunt questions, and we can see whether or not you are a complete zealot, and we are wasting our time talking to you:

    1. List five mistakes that the Palestinian leaders have made since the Balfour D. And by mistake, I don’t mean “the slipped up and gave the damn Israelites the upper hand. I mean mistakes where more people needlessly died because of their actions/inactions.

    2. How many Jewish/Innocent non-Palestians have been killed by Palestinians? You’ve been real good at pulling up stats so far, so let’s see if you recognize that there’s another side to this tug-of-war.

    3. Pretend the US stops sending aid to Israel tomorrow. Do you really think that both sides will just say “OK, that was fun, let’s have peace now”?

    I think that I can speak for many here on ArborUpdate by saying that both sides have acted like children, and should be ashamed of themselves for squabbling over some piddly piece of land while killing thousands when both of their holy books explicitly state that God is everywhere. What knothead came up with the notion that the God cares about a few square miles of crappy land when he/she created the whole damn universe?

    And before you start off about how Americans should be embarrassed as to how we’ve handled the whole Israeli/Palestinian thing, we are. The difference in this whole thread is that you don’t want to admit that you are ashamed at how the Palestinians have behaved. It takes at least to two to Tango, Blaine. Your constant condescending remarks toward us belie some serious intellectual insecurities.

    We mourn for the both sides, Blaine. My last question (#4) is do you mourn for both sides? Or are you one of the many pinheads out there, both Israeli and Palestinian, who think that it’s all the other sides fault, like some petulant, spoiled child?
       —todd l.    Jul. 27 '05 - 09:46AM    #
  38. Actually, Blaine, as a bit of a polisci student, you don’t know a Nazi when you see one. Hell, you don’t even know a fascist when you see one.
    “Surrounded by such disregard for Palestinians, not only on ArborUpdate, makes me feel unsafe.”
    Ah-hahahahahahahaha! Makes you feel unsafe? You’re totally bent, Blainester! You need to get back on your meds!
    You really sound like a first-world whiner, y’know that? Hey, why don’t you try going to eat at a Jerusolem cafe or stand outside a Bagdhad police office? These words make you feel unsafe? You COWARD!
    HA!
       —js    Jul. 27 '05 - 10:01AM    #
  39. So far, hardly a word about what the Palestinian population is actually going through.

    Still waiting.
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 27 '05 - 03:02PM    #
  40. Well, there it is. You’re a zealot.

    You have managed to alienate people who are actually sympathetic to Palestinian issues. Way to go. I’m sure the Palestinians would be thrilled with your work.

    Can a take a guess and say that you must have worked for the Kerry campaign?
       —todd l.    Jul. 27 '05 - 03:21PM    #
  41. Can I just say that the etymology of Zealot makes it amusing to apply to Blaine, though I don’t disagree with the labeling?
    So far, hardly a word on what the Tibetans are going through, Blaine. Why do you hate Tibet?
       —js    Jul. 27 '05 - 04:39PM    #
  42. Todd, was there ever any doubt about a guy who leaflets city council meetings with fliers reading “Israel – a Ku Klux Klan state, defended by a Ku Klux Klan City Council.”?

    He’s just a sick fuck.
       —Parking Structure Dude!    Jul. 27 '05 - 04:56PM    #
  43. When I tried to post anonymously, like “Parking Structure Dude”, I got massive insults, like it was against the law.

    When did the rules ease up?

    See what I mean, about how people’s tone gets very sharp, when someone speaks up for the people of Palestine?

    Now I notice that “Parking Structure Dude”, although his flyer quotation is accurate, has weighed in with the epithet “sick fuck”, which casts doubt on how humanely he views any kind of Free Palestine talk.

    I’m starting to wonder, where are all these sympathetic-to-Palestine people?

    You know, the ones who I’ve supposedly turned off?

    And how were they showing their sympathy up until now?
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 27 '05 - 05:15PM    #
  44. OK, Blaine, you got me. I’ll be straight with you. My real name is David Ben-Gurion.
       —Parking Structure Dude!    Jul. 27 '05 - 05:27PM    #
  45. Dear Dude,

    Hey, I don’t want to interfere with your anonymity.

    Just wanted to make a point about how Parking Structures are debated rationally, and often, while Palestine is treated like a dirty word.

    When’s the last time you saw Palestine, or Palestinians, discussed on your TV news, as if they were regular old boring people, like France, like Albuquerque, like City Council candidates?

    Just wanted to see some value and attention attached to Palestinians, like Parking Structures get, like New Public High Schools get.
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 27 '05 - 05:47PM    #
  46. “See what I mean, about how people’s tone gets very sharp, when someone speaks up for the people of Palestine?” -blaine…

    no blaine, again your missing the point…i, personally, got insulted, as did others, because we all got reprimanded by you for having the gall to post about uk bombing…or when we get berating for either not supporting divestment or mourning the deaths of innocent israelis as well as palestinians…it is the fanacistism, this george w. bush tone of “with us or against us” you apply to your stance on divestment that causes people’s tounges to sharpen…

    you’ll find, blaine, with the exception of visiters like t.j. that most of the people on this blog are very symopthetic to the plight of the palestinians (psst: some of them call themselves zionists)...

    what we don’t like are irrational name callers, people who berate us for not adhereing to their strict party line…its stalinist…its unpreductive…and by golly, this attack on everyone 1 noch moderate of hizbellah of yours isn’t going to win friends politically…

    free palestine, end the occupation…

    rock,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 27 '05 - 08:38PM    #
  47. OK, Ari,

    I’m looking forward to seeing you put that into action.

    Then I won’t have to intrude on the list.

    Thanks for giving it some thought.
       —Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 27 '05 - 09:24PM    #
  48. well, i’m on your mailing list…so when news that seems relevant to our readers hits, it’ll probably go up, like it has in the past…

    ari paul, signing off,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 27 '05 - 09:53PM    #
  49. Blaine: Why do you hate Tibet? You refuse to answer the question of a Free Tibet, and dodge the question repeatedly. Why? You must be supporting the KKK state that oppresses the Tibetan people. That’s, of course, the only possible answer. I’m not sure why we put up with your anti-Tibet prejudice, Blaine.
    (Five’ll getcha ten that he misses the point again. Any takers?)
       —js    Jul. 27 '05 - 10:44PM    #
  50. Joshua,

    * If the U.S. were giving China billions every year to oppress Tibet,

    * If the U.S. were squashing all Tibet resolutions in the U.N.,

    *if the U.S. media were enforcing near-total silence on Tibet,

    * If Tibetans were publicly smeared daily as “terrorists” for wanting ordinary freedom,
    —Then yeah, they would be in the situation Palestine is in, in this country.
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 28 '05 - 08:28AM    #
  51. US Media enforcing a near-total silence on Palestine? Boy, get you a Lexus-Nexis search. There were three stories that I saw this week in the NY Times. Perhaps illiteracy is part of your problem.
    The US has extended Most Favored Nation trade status despite objections based on human rights records, and continues to sell weapons technology to China, along with giving them development aid. As you don’t distinguish between types of monies to Israel, I don’t see how you can split hairs there.
    Tibetans are smeared daily as terrorists for wanting basic freedoms. Try reading any wire report out of China about Tibet.
    And boy, why couldn’t someone take my bet? Blaine STILL DOESN’T GET IT!
    Keep going Blaine, and I might even donate money to the settlers.
       —js    Jul. 28 '05 - 11:47AM    #
  52. and to add to that point, js and blaine, the us actually does give lots of money to china which in turn is used to oppress tibetans, among other people…trade trade trade, my friends…its too the point where the communist party of china makes ridicilous profits off american hyper consumerism…hows that for economic irony…

    also, the u.n. denies the tibetans many things, most notably refugee status, because of china’s permanant seat on the security council…

    yes, state media in china ties tibetans to wildest of lies, unfortunately…both presidents clinton and bush have stated that will press china to engage with dalai lama and resolve the problem, but it hasn’t ever moved beyond words really…

    by the way, what is the age of the world’s youngest political prisoner? 6…in what country??? china…

    urgh,
    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 28 '05 - 12:05PM    #
  53. You know what I mean, when I say public discussion of what is being done to the Palestinian population is totally off-limits for all mass media.

    (Unlike what China is doing to Han Chinese and Tibetans, Muslim minorities in China, etc.)

    All that outrage about what the Chinese media does to dehamnize Tibetans—I take your word for it, and I totally believe you.

    ...And an implied demand to cut off trade to China.

    All that outrage about China imprisoning kids.

    ...And an implied demand to raise hell about it.

    Again, I believe you.

    But… still, after all this time, I am:

    1) The only person on ArborUpdate to make similar demands about Palestine, and to voice similar outrage,

    2) The only person called a long string of totally outraged obsenities on ArborUpdate. (And I thank you for stopping in the last day or so.)

    I’m still asking you to question your assumptions:

    Tibet= Oppressed. Must cut trade to China.

    Palestine= Pain in ass. Must postpone discussion until warranted at some future time.

    ******************

    Do you see what I’m trying to say, about who’s allowed to express outrage in public life, and who isn’t?
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 28 '05 - 01:11PM    #
  54. Blaine: YOU STILL DON’T GET IT!
    China is irrelevant to discussions of London, even if they are oppressing Tibet. PALESTINE IS IRRELEVANT!
    ARBORUPDATE ISN’T THE PLACE!
    Blaine, you do understand that you’re coming across like Fred Phelps, right? Specifically, like Fred Phelps protesting at gay funerals. While you’ve got a right to say what you want, having some fucking grasp of social skills might help you advance your cause.
    But you’re never gonna get it. Never gonna get it. Never gonna get it, you autistic jackass.
       —js    Jul. 28 '05 - 01:32PM    #
  55. (Oh, and I’ve called TJ and Livshiz just as many names as you, Blaine, so climb down offa your cross, dipshit).
       —js    Jul. 28 '05 - 01:33PM    #
  56. Why, oh why, do I feel that the atmosphere for Arabs and Muslims, in London and Ann Arbor, and the Gaza Strip, is an unjustly murderous atmosphere?

    Why, oh why, does it seem to me that Arabs and Muslims, today, are in exactly the position of European Jews in 1934?

    Why can’t I just “take the blue pill?”

    Why can’t I just post about Candidate Kang, about Ann Arbor parking, and about poor, dear, white, victimized London?

    Am I just too blind to see how fair things are, for Palestine, for Arabs, at the hands of Uncle Sam and Uncle Ariel and Uncle Tony, in jolly old London? (And in jolly old ArborUpdate?)

    Am I a “zealot” who can’t see how Palestinians deserve what they get, at the hands of jolly old Sharon, who you feed with billions a year, every year?

    ********************

    Seeing as how the last “proper” place to say a peep about Palestine was the Hiller’s vigil post (a very long time ago),

    I guess I should wait until ArborUpdate decides that divestment, or Palestine, is worthy of an official article to post underneath.

    But still I question your tone.

    I’m glad that nobody called Ari a string of obscene names for going into some detail, with some outrage, about the situation of oppressed Tibetans.

    But…

    If you are “fair and balanced”, you should have abused Ari for Tibet talk, as you abused me for Palestine talk.

    And Ari did not create a Tibet story under which to post.

    We all know what’s going on here.

    No one minds Tibet talk.

    Nobody minds Burma talk.

    (City Council just divested from Burma in 1999!)

    So…

    I am trusting you to think a minute, when you write of terror and death in London, to consider something:

    -Consider that Arabs and Muslims have seen more terror and death than anyone in London ever has, in your entire lifetime.

    All our government bodies and media organs feed that terror and death, as they feed and protect Israel.

    Again, please examine your own feelings about the supposed “impropriety” of discussing Palestine as if it were inhabited by people who you truly value—like Londoners.

    What is it, about Palestine, that makes you associate it with unworthy people, that makes you say “fuck” to even see it mentioned?

    If you occupy them, and massacre them, don’t they bleed like Londoners?

    Will there ever be a time when divestment is fit for public discussion, or will it forever smell like a fart in your mind, worthy of curse words only?
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 28 '05 - 03:03PM    #
  57. Like a fart, Blaine. You’ve poisoned the word. “Divestment” is always going to smell like a fart in my mind. Fart. Fart. Fart. Fart. Fart. Fart. Fart.
       —Parking Structure Dude!    Jul. 28 '05 - 04:08PM    #
  58. So before I mentioned “divestment”, you were ready to go for it?
       —-Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 28 '05 - 04:51PM    #
  59. Way to go, Blaine Phelps. Got any more “God Hates Jews” for us?
    (Oh, and you’ll note that a significant number of the people killed in the London blasts weren’t white at all. Maybe if you weren’t such a reflexive racist you’d have noticed that in the news reports).
       —js    Jul. 28 '05 - 06:12PM    #
  60. Joshua,

    At least you didn’t say “fuck” this time.

    I should be glad for that much.

    Like I was asking:
    Before I came along, you were ready to press for divestment from Israel— but my bad etiquette turned you against Palestine?

    Is that the bad effect you say my messages are having?
       —Blaine. (Palestine)    Jul. 28 '05 - 09:50PM    #