Arbor Update

Juliew, that is an absolutely beautiful picture! I keep looking at it (better than watching the Tigers lose :)).

I thought that I read something about the market’s advisory council “losing power” lately, and “more power” going to the market manager. Or maybe I just dreamt that??? Since I don’t know much about the situation, I am not sure if this is bad or good….

Thanks TeacherPatti, I couldn’t resist taking that picture last week. All those vegetables looked so beautiful in the sun.

I think the changes in the Farmer’s Market can be taken a few different ways. There are definitely some contentious issues and changing the makeup of the commission is a pretty big step. But, like you, I don’t know enough to know exactly what the implications are.

There is an Ann Arbor Farmers Market page on Arborwiki where there’s been some collective effort to catalog the farmers there and to link back to pages with information about their operations. If there’s someone systematically bringing in produce that’s not grown on their farm, it should be possible to determine that.

I love that Mason Proper are in their top friends (“My My, Bad Fruit”?)

Buying and selling is rampant from bedding plants to baked goods. Past manager stated she knew of 20 vendors were buying and selling. Commissioner stated she is to take care of it. She stated she would not. During June’s 2007 commission meeting, Commissioner Scott Newll of Big City Bakery asked Ms. Black why she was letting a vendor buy frozen baked goods, bake them and bring them to market,
Her reply “I have nothing to say NOT ONE WORD”

Local Harvest community states if it is City Code that there is no buying and selling and the market manager is allowing it, then the manager should be fired. One Harvester recommended that a petition signed by vendors and customers should be in order to have manager resign.

Wouldn’t want buying and selling occurring in a market, that would be terrible.

Some interesting videos related to the Market. Now, obviously these are edited to prove a particular point, but I’ve seen Peter Pollack in some pretty contentious situations and never saw him angry like this. It definitely looks like a few people on the board need to leave and I haven’t heard anything from anyone supporting the Market Manager. Does anyone know any more about her? I wouldn’t think there was this much animosity around a Farmer’s Market, but then, there is a lot of money at stake. Video A Video B

Hey the guy in video A is the the vendor that also subs as Potty patrol in the markets bathroom.

Vendors support the manager by paying her outrageous salary and benefits. Full time pay for 2 market days work. She came to the market without any previous market experience.
Should anyone support her in any way if she is allowing buying and selling?

That’s a fairly (or unfairly, rather) indirect complaint, jeff. Do you hold the market manager responsible for the job description and compensation of the manager position?

steven,
vendors have no representation. However, the majority of vendors feel she is paid an outrageous salary.

The current market commission did a great job. Turns out they uncovered the fact that none of the market rules from mediation were ever promulgated.(Mr. Kevin McDonald) No complaint procedure, no transference, no seniority etc. They also uncovered the fact that Mr. Robertello lied on a 2005 state police report. In his statement to the state he claims he gained transference because he married one of the Kapnick daughters.
In the meeting Mr. Robertello stated that Sharon was an owner of Kapnick Orchards. Why is she now renting if she owned it?

I believe that if you polled the vendors, the majority are happy with the present Market Manager. At the City Council public hearing on the Market Ordinance revisions none of the vendors spoke against giving the Market Manager greater discretionary authority. One Commissioner,who is also a vendor, did speak against the proposed changes which reduced the authority of the Market Commission.

While the vendors are generally satisfied with the Market Manager, many would state that they are not receiving good value, or service, for the amount she is paid from their vendor fees. I would concur, but I believe this is a more general fault of our bureaucratic city administration than that of the Market Manager. Remember, the Market Manager is now an employee of the Parks Facilities Department, not a Market employee. She must attend all the staff meetings; and of course, there is now also an assistant Market Manager paid from the stall fees.

Our informal group, The Friends of the Market, have been active in following the Market for several years. Our blog is arbormarket.blogspot.com.

No one likes a liar and Ms. Black has been known to tell many. She is a gossip. She was told by Jane Miller not to respond to vendor questions. What’s that about. She is also allowing cheating.

More unsubstantiated allegations of cheating. names please.

I hear she secretly chews tobacco.

As former Chair of the Market Commission that was recently “dismembered”, I thought I would weigh in with a lengthy commentary. The following is the text of a communication I made to the Mayor and City Council prior to their vote on the so-called “new” rules in July:

To the Mayor and City Council
Parliamentary procedure allows a body to rescind or reconsider decisions taken at prior meetings, within certain guidelines. Council has itself done so in the past, the Metro 202 decision comes to my mind. Decisions such as this do not come lightly, usually they are of an important nature.

At the duly convened Market Commission meeting of June 21st, 2007, a motion was made to rescind the Commission’s approval of proposed Market Operating Rules, and City Code provisions regarding makeup of the Commission. The vote had the needed 2/3 majority, since prior notice of the motion had not been made. If all seven of the members of the Commission had been in attendance, there would have been a motion made to reconsider the approval made at the May Commission meeting, and the outcome would have been the same, as the Commission members who wanted rescinding or reconsideration were clearly in the majority.

This drastic step was taken for many reasons, but was essentially a vote of “no confidence” in the process of revising the Market Operating Rules. Suggestions made to revise the rules to be fairer to all vendors, made by the Ann Arbor citizens who sit on the Commission, were not incorporated into the rules changes. The set of rules that you will be voting on tonight has certain flaws that need to be addressed. The call for a “sweeping change” in the rules was made clear by the Commission back in the fall of 2006, since the rules and procedures were found to be vague, unworkable, and unenforceable. This was an historic opportunity to fix rules that had been in place for about 10 years.

What we received in return is a set of rules that perpetuate a system where a few vendors benefit, at the expense of the many who would also like to have a place at the Public Market. Unfair stall allocations and seniority issues have continually plagued the market, causing vendors to complain, and may ultimately lead to the loss of vendors who cannot make a decent living at our market. Stall allocations and seniority were not fixed in these rules. For instance, one group of family members (Delores Gracia, Toni Gracia, Carol Vena, Denise Brock, and Tina Koski), all work one greenhouse property, but are allowed to have 16 permanent stalls between the five vendors. They make a lot of money. This group monopolizes a “public” space, and prevents diversity of products and vendors from gaining a foothold, having to wait years and years for a permanent space. Such a scarce public resource should not be allowed to be used for such narrow purposes.

If preferences are to be given to vendors, they should be given to organic growers, and to those vendors from Washtenaw County, as they have less of a “carbon footprint”, and help to maintain scarce water resources that we all depend upon. This also would go along with the greenbelt strategy wisely put into place a few years ago.

You are not likely to hear any opposition from vendors as to this new set of rules. By and large, those vendors who complain or go against the will of those who set the unfair rules into place years ago, are shunned or retaliated against, and therefore fearful of making an outcry in the public arena where they can be identified. Please keep in mind the source of support or opposition.

Placing most decision-making power into the hands of the Market Manager can be a good thing, or it can be dangerous. It all depends on a strict impartiality on the part of the Market Manager. Biases and preferences towards or against certain vendors are poisonous, and have developed in the past in Market Managers here in Ann Arbor, I have directly observed these behaviors. I appreciate the difficulties of operating the Public Market on a daily basis, and I think that Jessica Black has done an admirable job under the circumstances, but I can see where certain biases are creeping in once again.

Finally, I think it is unwise to reduce the number of commissioners on the Market Commission, as that curbs valuable public input. The removal of the statement of purpose is also detrimental, as the current purpose is suitable when it calls for “equitable opportunity” and a “diverse and friendly atmosphere”.

Thank you for the opportunity to communicate with you all. These are my thoughts only, I do not purport to speak for all on the Market Commission.

I would love to share with the ArborUpdate community more of what I know to be fact about the market, as I was on the Commission for nearly 6 years.

Luis, thanks for the info.

I have a question. I’ve been in Ann Arbor for just 8 years, and I still hear about how hard it is to get into the market.

Why don’t you just ditch the current location, and move it to one of the nearby parks? More room. Lotsa extra customers on Sat. when the weather is nice. Problem solved. Many, many cities do just this.

That location, and the size of your location, if I understand your problems, is completely unsuited for your needs. It’s absurd to turn down space to local farmers/growers/whatever just because you think that that space is your only option.

It would certainly get rid of the bickering about a lack of space, wouldn’t it? Mitchell Field is pretty big, and rents space. Why not there?

Just a thought.

It is my understanding that a potential vendor has never been turned away from the market because of lack of space. I confirmed this today in conversations with the Market Manager and with a long term vendor that was a past member of the Market Commission. Potential vendors have been rejected if it was felt their proposal was inconsistent with the nature of the market. One example that I remember was an application from a massage studio.

The space issue is more that every vendor desires the prime stall sites. This would persist at any market location. The market uses a seniority system to assign space so the new vendor is at a disadvantage, but even so, there are only a few Saturdays of the year when all stall spaces under the shed canopies are occupied.

Another strong reason to keep the Market at the present location is the proximity to the Peoples Food Coop and the Kerrytown Shops. The combination makes the area a “super market” for many residents.

Ah, thanks. I had always heard (and from farmers, no less) that there was a wait list a mile long. We were actually approached by some farmers the year that we opened to see if we could host a market in our parking lot.

If you don’t have to turn away farmers, the space is centralized and fine….but this is not what I have heard/been told directly.

Another question. Why do you use a seniority system? If this is a taxpayer based program, why are you not using a lottery system to assure fairness of lot placement? I can’t think of another govt. service where priority is given using the “I was here first” system.

Why aren’t all vendors given fair and equal access as long as they meet your criteria (e.g., no massage parlors)?

The growers association created this system in the mid 80’s. Many vendors complained when several of the vendors claimed they were there before other vendors. Vendors that were age 13 claimed seniority ahead of many that came before.
Many vendors are embarrased by Glen Thompsons presence regarding market matters. If one is speaking only to new manager and scott robertello then I would advise not to listen. lottery would be great. Mr. Robertello is against this as it would be a fair solution to a major problem/

Well, seeing as how the taxpayers are picking up the tab, this should be run like any other GO. No one gets contracts or perq’s because “they were there first”.

The idea behind a Farmer’s market is to give both farmers/growers a free access point to exchange healthy local food. The idea isn’t to give one person more money because they were there first.

This seniority system is particularly, um, contraindicated if one of the obvious goals is to have MORE local veggies and fruits. Why the heck would you make it tougher on a new grower to establish the sales they need to get out of the difficult startup phase?

I know nothing about the market (other than the veggies I get there are tasty), but if you’re going to go to all the trouble of having a Market Commission with rules and procedures, then IMHO, you should cut the Junior Varsity method of giving favors to the old guard, and go to a lottery system that benefits all the local growers as a whole. More financially healthyfarmers=good.

Well said, Todd. I’ll also venture that the issue of good stalls vs. bad stalls is a symptom of a problem that’s not being addressed. If the majority of vendors wouldn’t be satisfied with some sort of revolving or at least regular shuffling of stall assignment, then evening out the visibility or foot traffic seems like it would be a priority for the market manager. The place isn’t that big—how hard can it be to ensure that no stall is out of the loop? Maybe start by moving the trash cans to the ends of aisles instead of putting them at the intersections?

Todd and Steven, please come to meetings and make these great ideas a reality. There is a small group of vendors that will shoot down these ideas in a second. They will not budge from their stalls and will cry foul play as “they are the ones that made the market.” That’s what they always say to city council whenever they feel threatened. The city now allows several business entities in one set of stalls. Zingermans can now do the same now that they are in the market. A far cry from the small family farm. Another vendor sells liquor and cigarettes at it’s grocery store.

Small group of vendors complained about the first draft for new market construction. It would have eliminated any bad location a thing of the past. The manager helped these vendors and decided instead of new layout, they will add on to dead mans alley. What a let down for vendors and customers. The market needs to be relocated where there’s better parking and better space for ALL vendors not just the friends of the manager as these are the only vendors she caters to.

The Farmers Marketer states the customer came to market in June and purchased corn. Corn in MI is knee high on the fourth of July!. Buying and selling? Apples in feb.-august? without controlles atmoshere room apples can’t be stored in regular refidge, This vendor is not on the list from Dept. of Ag as a licensed control room. So can you find these vendors, the manager knows and won’t do anything about it. Mr. McDonald (city attorney)stated It is our policy,we let them cheat in the past we’ll continue to let them.

So many things are “known” about the Market. Just “known” without basis or data.

Like Todd, I met a potential vendor that wanted to sell at the AA Market, but he knew it was just too hard to get into the Market. This was last spring when the Market had a campaign to recruit new vendors. I gave the person, a grower of organic apples, the contact information for the Market manager. I told him that there were several established apple vendors, but as a certified organic grower, I thought he would be successful.

A month or two later I emailed and asked if he would be at the Market this fall. His response: “No, I didn’t contact the Market manager. Ya know, it is just too hard to get into that Market”

To the best of my knowledge there never has been a wait list for growers (producers) at the Market. (Artisans applying to the Farmers Market have been redirected to apply to the Sunday Artisans Market) There are two classes of producers, annual vendors and daily vendors. A vendor moves from the daily category to the annual category based on seniority. There is a wait list to be an annual vendor.

Why are there two categories? Many vendors do not come all year. Many bedding plant vendors come only in the spring. Traditional harvest vendors may only come in the fall. If the Market were limited to annual vendors there would be many empty stalls even in the peak seasons.

Is it more desirable to to be annual vendor? Of course. You can come at 4:00am and immediately start setting up. A daily vendor must wait until 6:00am for their stall assignment. But is it a crisis? The image of a vendor showing up with a truckload of fresh produce and being turned away because there isn’t space is simply false.

Do annual vendors always come and immediately set up? No, many use the “move up” provision which allows them to move into a location they may consider more desirable or which may have a greater number of contiguous stalls.

Is the current system perfect? No, but it works reasonably well. Would a lottery aspect be better? No! A lottery is for gamboling. The market needs to operate as a business. What business picks its CEO, marketers or sales force by lottery?

One commenter mentioned that seniority is not important in government. This is simply false. It plays a very significant role in all government levels from the city to the federal level. For employees, it is a very significant part of the civil service system. For contractors it is also very important. It is not called seniority, it is “past experience”, “demonstrated ability to perform” or a similar name.

Seniority may not be perfect, but it is objective. How can we think that it would better for the Ann Arbor citizen, or for the Market, to take stalls from vendors that have demonstrated the ability to come to the Market many days of the year with very attractive displays and give their space to untested vendors?

Let the new vendor demonstrate their capability. Many have, the good ones will continue to do so, and they will succeed.

Is the current system perfect? No, but it works reasonably well. Would a lottery aspect be better? No! A lottery is for gamboling. The market needs to operate as a business. What business picks its CEO, marketers or sales force by lottery?

That’s irrelevant. The vendors are participants in a market (in the general as well as specific sense), not employees.

One commenter mentioned that seniority is not important in government. This is simply false. It plays a very significant role in all government levels from the city to the federal level. For employees, it is a very significant part of the civil service system. For contractors it is also very important. It is not called seniority, it is “past experience”, “demonstrated ability to perform” or a similar name.

Again, irrelevant. The vendors sell products, they don’t provide public services.

Seniority may not be perfect, but it is objective. How can we think that it would better for the Ann Arbor citizen, or for the Market, to take stalls from vendors that have demonstrated the ability to come to the Market many days of the year with very attractive displays and give their space to untested vendors?

Three for three. Also the premise is false, if we can believe what others have said that there are usually stalls available.

A lottery would be fair. An auction might be better, though, if it’s true that some stalls are somehow better than others. Then, rather than fairness of access or exposure, there would be fairness of cost for access/exposure.

How about a scheme similar to the NYC taxi medallions?

great ideas howerver, a small group of long time vendors(the Growers ass.)would cry wolf. They have and still maintain they are the ones who created the market. kevin mcdonald stated none of old rules existed. so how does this affect the seniority list created & implemented is it still viable. The lottery has been recommended and will continue to be recommended as the only fair and equal access to the market. The mayor and city council just gave 3 vendors 4 stalls. Some vendors have waited for many years just to get 2 stalls and they aren’t adjoining.
As far as the buying and selling..
There are no criteria for inspections or products.
Many of the inspections were done almost 8 years ago. Greenhouses were inspected in May and June, (long after possible production)orchards were inspected in May, apples and other fruits don’t bear fruit in May. inspection report for a bakery stated vendor has licensed facility. Mo evidence of production.
Evergreen holiday products were inspected in may. inspection report states saw remnants of last years products.

I am not very familiar with the NYC taxicab system, Ed. I think there are different categories of cabs, like handicap accessible, and the licenses are auctioned for each category.

In the case of the Market lets say some stalls were reserved for artisans and the remainder auctioned. The most likely result is that the newer vendor would be bid out of the Market. There are many established vendors that would bid considerable higher than the present rate for more stalls. Even now, vendors with multiple stalls pay more per stall than single stall vendors.

I am not aware of any market using a direct stall auction. A variation that is common, particularly in markets managed for profit, is for the stall fee to be a percentage of sales. To keep the system honest the stalls are assigned to maximize the market income. Let’s say an established grower writes a stall fee check for $6,000 to the market manager and says: “That would be $8,000 if I had another stall” The startup vendor or artisan behind him/her hands the manager a check for $60 and says: “It would be only fair for you to take stalls from the larger vendor and give them to me”. Who do you think gets the rejection letter and who gets an extra stall next year?

The cost of operating the Market has steadily increased since it was transfered to the Parks department. It is very likely that some increase in fees or change in the method of collection will soon be required. If I were a new vendor, or simply one that is not very profitable I would be very reluctant to suggest any form of auction.

a vendor that utilizes the market 80 times a year pays the same as a vendor that only has seasonal products and utilizes the market maybe 20-30 times. why isn’t the vendor that utilizes it more often paying a higher price. Payments should be made seasonally. Also
until there are clear cut written criteria, rule interpretation will be left open to subjective point of view. In the case of the pre-made frozen baked goods is this a product the vendor makes?

It is sometimes hard for me to believe people will become so incensed over the Farmers Market. The market is not there to serve the vendors, it is there to serve the people of A2. So long as I can buy fresh stuff there I am happy. I am also excited to see the new remodeled area and to have a solar powered market. The space should be made functional for other events the other 5 days of the week.

Seems to me like the city just wants to keep the lid on things and given the hyper nature of the last few meetings of the old market commission and some of the films and comments on websites and on blogs, I can see why. They were smart to dissolve the old market commission. Why not phase them out and back to 2 over time.

Pat, the council did not just “give” 4 stalls to anyone, they just let the vendors who had 4 keep them, for now anyway. As I recall from the council meeting, there are a lot of details to be worked out by the new commission.

Peter Pollock’s name was put forward on Tuesday night and he served on the old one as well. Peter is a very solid member for any commission and no one is better suited to work this out, especially now that there will be a less crazy environment to work in.

The market is there to serve the public, however, the public is better served when there is no cheating and fairness and equity are realized.

Why do some vendors receive 4 stalls?
How did “several vendors” (according to Ms. Black) gain transference without ever applying?
If the manager knows someone is cheating why isn’t she doing her job? Corn in early June? Have also heard she has left the market well before 3:oo on several Saturdays.

I also see Genia Service has been named. She’s in that video sloppy cover-up job. She’s the one laughing as carol scott lifts up her shirt and assaults the camera. The crazy environment was created from several sources. 1. Mr. McDonald stated that none of the market rules had been promulgated. 2.when a vendor lies and cheats. 3.Market manager Can’t fault the past commission for that. They brought to light all the major policy changes that vendors needed to be addressed and implemented years ago..but were ignored by past commissions.

One last comment. I find it very interesting that Jane Miller did not update her June 18th letter that was given to the mayor and city council in July’s council meeting. On June 21st the commission changed their vote, however Ms. Miller’s letter did not mention this. Nor did Mr. Robertello’s. Odd?

“It is sometimes hard for me to believe people will become so incensed over the Farmers Market. The market is not there to serve the vendors, it is there to serve the people of A2.”
Laura I hope you don’t mind, but this statement is utterly absurd! It’s easy for a shopper at a market to take it’s existence for granted, giving little thought to why the market exists. Those involved in creating and operating the market know the economic and political issues behind any market may be much more complex. The most important political or philosophical issues related to the market, are why they exist and whom they are intended to benefit. Markets are typically created to serve the needs of local farmers and consumers. The most common and direct manner in which this purpose is reflected in the producer- only feature that informs consumers the market is designed primarily as an outlet for local farmers selling only products raised on their farms.Farmers markets are important because they give local farmers the chance to sell food they raise directly to customers: A market allows the consumer to buy fresh food from the farmers who raise it.
Several vendors, commissioners and past and current manager know there’s buying and selling, but have taken no action.
When this happens it does not benefit consumers and it can possibly put a small farm out of operation.
This market supports the big farmers that have many other outlets from which they also sell their products. More later gotta go

Thompson, you have such a skewed view of things going on at the market. On the one hand, you rail against a “bureaucratic city administration”, yet on your website, you want to see organic farmers at our market be saddled with baloney USDA “organic certification.” You speak with forked tongue, hopefully someday you will choke on it. There are many vendors who disagree with your viewpoints, and would like to see you cease your unwanted meddling in the market.

Laura B, you display the attitude of many Ann Arbor consumers who take things for granted, just so long as you are getting your fresh produce. You are right that the “city” wanted to keep a lid on things there, but putting a lid on a simmering pot may cause it to boil over, and thats what really happened. Issues were allowed to fester, complaints weren’t addressed by the “city” (meaning the Parks and Rec staff, a succession of market managers, the city’s legal dept, and council), and then citizens on the commission were stonewalled, and those issues of unfairness were covered up. The recent commission brought things to a head, sorry to see them go. If Mr Pollack and Ms Genia Service were truly interested in change, then they would not be applying for re-appointment to the “new” commission, and would let the commission start totally afresh. They are naive individuals who are ignorant about the real history of the market.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the market is not called the farmers market any longer.It’s called the public market. will the city be taking down the “farmers market “ signs? The city stripped the market of it’s mission statement and now operates without one.
I have the same ? as marty, why are there vendors with 4 stalls?
for fuzzy..I agree with many of your observations. several of the vendors at the public market agree also, especially regarding Glen thompson.
I’m glad to see Ken’s nomination. He’s a great asset to market. I admired his comments in Sept. 06 observer about the buying and reselling of hanging baskets.
Mr. Pollack , IMHO, is long winded with not much to say. yawn yawn yawn

These links might be of some help regarding organics vs. authentic

http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/main/authentic/beyon
d.html

http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/main/authentic/authentic.html

http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/main/authentic/standards.html

http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/main/authentic/role.html

well it’s officially over..Peach season that is. have been told by the peach growers that mi peaches are done. if you see any at the market next sat., they’re not from MI.

Really? I was up north last week and saw plenty of peaches still on the trees. I don’t know what the markets rules are about products from points north but to say that any peaches can’t be from Michigan wouldn’t be accurate.

checked out 3 markets in A2 on sat. and was told MI peaches are done for the season.

How many peach growing vendors that come to our market are from up north?

The Market rules require produce to be from Michigan, Ohio or Indiana. I think Tabone Orchards is from Petoskey.

That’s strange. Why would a Farmer’s Market that operates on City funds accept produce from Ohio and Indiana? That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense on its face.

What am I missing here?

That’s what they call “local”.The last manager recruited several of these out of state vendors.
Doesn’t make sense to me either. can possibly hurt MI vendors that want into the market.
The market doesn’t operate on city funds. it operates on stall and parking fees. The manager takes a huge bite out of the funds, Way way too much according to severaal vendors. Spends most of her time with gossip.

“The market doesn’t operate on city funds”

Are you sure that’s true? The City owns the land as well as the parking spaces, unless I’m mistaken.

But….how much is it for a stall?

And is the Manager a City employee?

Very confusing stuff.

For many years the Market Manager was an independent part time employee. The Farmers Market was more than self sufficient. Any excess funds were placed in a Market Fund to be used as reserves for a bad year, maintenance etc. During this period the Market Fund accumulated an excess of about $500,000. There is a very well referenced History of the Market linked on Arbormarket.blogspot.com. The link is in the right hand side bar.

Several years ago the Market was transferred to the Parks Department. A full time Market Manager was hired and also a part time assistant. These city employees are responsible for managing the facility, that is the Farmers Market, the Artisans Market, and all other uses of the area.

The intent is that the facility be self supporting. But only the Farmers Market generates significant income. Every time the facility is used for another purpose the Farmers support at least the overhead of that use. Just compare the Farmers Market to the Artisans Market. Based on the number of hours the markets are open the Farmers pay about $100/hr the Artisans $25/hr. (Last years data, the numbers may have changed slightly.)

I do not think that the Market Manager is paid an excessive amount for a full time city employee. If the vendors only paid the salary she receives there would be a large surplus each year. The problem is the overhead burden added by the city and the question of whether the Farmers are paying a fair share of the total facility cost.

In direct response to todd’s post: 1 stall=$250. 2 stalls=575. 3 stalls=$970. 4 stalls=$1425. Parking extra. The city owns the lot but it was purchased by the market fund from vendor fees.

glen are you a vendor? If not please stop speaking as if you represent them it’s offensive

why is the market open Jan. thru March when only approx. 13 or so vendors are there?
Do they pay more considering they are using the facilites,heat, manager etc. or are the other vendors subsidizing them.

why is the market open Jan. thru March when only approx. 13 or so vendors are there?

Because people shop there. Even at this time of year I only go to a small number of my preferred vendors. I don’t need a huge number of vendors if one has want I want. I love that the market is open year round and buy a lot of food through the winter. Now that Shannon Brines is providing local greens through the winter and others are following suit, those “lean” months are looking up. Since the Market stalls are not heated and the Manager’s office and bathrooms are kept open year-round anyway, I can’t see why having vendors there year-round could be anything but good. If anything, it keeps people coming so when the early produce starts up again in the spring, there is already a clientele.

The managers office and the bathrooms are kept open for only those few vendors and a few customers and the rest of the vendors subsidize it.

Juliew- Your response is a bit self centered. Were you one of the customers that voted against the heated sheds for winter use for vendors in winter. Hey there could have potentially been more vendors. Even without the winter market, it’s with great confidence that there’s already an 85 year history of clientele. I don’t think it’s because the market is open in Jan-March.Also take into account that many of those 13 or so vendors are artisans.

Hmm, self-centered? Well, who isn’t? Why wouldn’t you want the market to be open January-March? I am a customer and I go to Farmer’s Market year-round, as do many others. No, I was not one of the customers who voted against heated sheds (When was that vote? Were customers allowed to vote? Who put the vote to the public? How many voted for it? How many voted against it? How did the vendors feel?). I don’t actually see too many artisans at the market after December. I stop to get apples and cider, eggs, potatoes, greens, garlic or brussels sprouts or leeks or other hardy late winter or early spring crop, meat, maple sugar, and bread. And yes, the first few weeks of January and into March when there is produce (it went late last year because the weather was so warm), it is the people who go all year who spread the word that produce is available. Are the year-rounders the only reason for the success of the market—absolutely not, but they help keep people in business during those lean months. Why should we abandon the year-round producers just because they have something to buy when other people don’t? For example, Brines Farm has more produce available in the winter because that works best with his hoop houses and his land and growing practices. I think we should do everything we can to encourage year-round local food rather than discourage it!

Julie w you still won’t answer the question. Do all the other vendors subsidize these “Winter Vendors” at the market Jan.-march?
Currently ther’s no criteria for inspectiions or products.
I for one would like to know for example, if the cider is from the apples grown by the vendor or do they make their cider from apples out of state . Can baked goods be from pre-made frozen, or from commercial mixes or do they have to be made from scratch. Do they have to contain one or more ingredients from other Michigan producers.
Many customers have commented that in Jan-March it looks as if street people , and or the homeless are occupying it .
One of those winter vendors businesses is a market/store that sells liquor and groceries.

If memory serves “The Friends of the Market” group (Glen Thompson) was instrumental in helping rid the market’s new construction which was to include heated sheds for winter. I think this group was also responsible along with a few members of the mob, in misdirecting consumers. They attempted telling customers that the space was going to be used for other purposes including the market. This group went screaming saying A2 has only one market and it should not be used for any other purposes.
As a consumer I wonder why some vendors trucks are allowed in the market area, when the area could be used for more vendors.

Julie w you still won’t answer the question. Do all the other vendors subsidize these “Winter Vendors” at the market Jan.-march?
Um, I have no idea, I just shop there. You seem to have some agenda behind your question (and for goodness sake, you didn’t answer any of my questions either so there is no need to get all that way about it). Since the facility is there year-round and manager’s job is full-time regardless of who shows up, I expect there is little to no subsidization. I mean, you could say that we all subsidize the market to some extent because it is empty most days. If we have the facility, I would prefer to see it used.

I for one would like to know for example, if the cider is from the apples grown by the vendor or do they make their cider from apples out of state. Can baked goods be from pre-made frozen, or from commercial mixes or do they have to be made from scratch. Do they have to contain one or more ingredients from other Michigan producers.
Ask them. If you don’t like their answer, don’t buy from them. If you don’t like that, research it and find real facts and figures, and get the word out about who is a real local grower and who isn’t. This works far better if you do it in a professional way, not by calling people names, flashing people, or dueling propaganda videos. Personally, I shop at the vendors where I know the producer and have seen what and where they produce. If the Market doesn’t want to police itself, then certainly the patrons can have a lot of pull or police it for themselves. Not everyone objects to “buying and selling.” If this is all just a personal gripe against Scott Robertello and Kapnick Orchards because they get four spaces and you or someone you know only get one, then leave the rest of us out of it. Don’t hide behind thinly-veiled accusations that hurt all the Market vendors.

Many customers have commented that in Jan-March it looks as if street people, and or the homeless are occupying it.
It gets cold out there in February. I don’t look like a fashion-plate either when I shop there. I don’t shop based on what a vendor looks like.

One of those winter vendors businesses is a market/store that sells liquor and groceries.
Many, if not most, farmers these days have other businesses which allow them to continue farming. Just because they run a market and sell liquor doesn’t mean they aren’t local producers. Bella Vino is a large market selling liquor and groceries and much of their produce is local.

The owners of Bella Vino are actual farmers?
Didn’t know that. Did the profits from the farm help start the retail store or did the profits from the store help establish the farm? In this case isn’t it the Amish that are the farmers?
There is a great difference between a retail store and a farm.

“Not everyone objects to buying and selling”
City code and vendors believe this is a valuable and an enforceable rule. Since the market advertises and City Code requires that this is a producer only market, then the manager should be doing her job. Take the corn in June scenario. It’s not up to other vendors to police the market it’s the managers job to uphold city code. Vendors sign contracts with the city. The city states it will not allow buying and selling. that’s their end of the contract.
Do some vendors really have more stalls than others? How did some get 4 and all others limited to less than?I would have to disagree with this.

Saturday Sept. 22 is the webster fall festival.
The festival will be highlighting several local farms, including Fields, Brines and Stark from Renaissance Acres. These family farms also attend the A2 market.
Come join in the fun. It shouils be a great festival.

Zingerman’s is now at the market. A business that generates 30 or so million in sales per year, yet they have a stall at the market. How are family farms supposed to compete fairly with this large conglomerate? Are the owners of Zingerman’s now farmers?

How are family farms supposed to compete fairly with this large conglomerate?

By getting a stall at the market and selling their produce to an appreciative crowd of customers, I would think.

You seem to be in search of a scapegoat, dozie. What’s your vision for the market? Is there room in it for everyone? If not, who would you exclude and why? What can customers like Julie and I do to improve the prospects for the future?

In search of a scapegoat? Don’t get the drift.
I think you should do your own internet search of why farmers markets exist. Many will not allow an entity into the market if they have established retail outlets for themselves already. Isn’t Zingerman’s within a block of the market, and other locations in and around the city? Did Bella Vino and Zingerman’s start out by getting a stall at the market as farmers? NO

Juliew: Kapnick orchards does not have 4 stalls at the market.So the rest of your remarks are just dribble.
What accusations?There has been one. That was by the commission and several vendors. At the June07 Meeting, Commission asked the manager why she was allowing this vendor to sell pre-made frozen baked products.
There was another vendor a few years ago that produced eggs. She retired and sold her business. The Growers assoc. and the commission told her she could purchase eggs from another farmer and bring them to the market.Considering this is against the rules, a vendor filed a complaint and the egg vendor left the market. Prior to this vendors exist from the market, she repeatedly verbally harassed the vendor that filed the complaint.

Pretty soon you’ll have McDonalds chickens from their farms and the deli food from whole foods having stalls. My hunch is this is not the purpose of what farmers markets were intended to be.

What can you do to help the market? Continue to shop there and be skeptical about the many claims of unfair treatment of some vendors. For example, why should some vendors have a greater number of stalls? One reason is simply the type and amount of produce. One vendor sells maple syrup. How many ways can you package that? How many gallons does the average citizen use in a year? He doesn’t have many stalls at the market because he doesn’t need or want them.

One of the largest critics of unequal stall space lists a city lot as his farm on his market application. Another has over an acre of greenhouse space and eight acres of field space. The city farmer lists about 100 plants as inventory, the other lists over 15,000 flats of bedding plants alone. Is it best for the customers of the Market if each of these vendors to have equal stall space?

Demand data and information. You will be personally attacked for not accepting their dogma, as you already have been. But this is really their only avenue of argument.

G. Thompson

Glen, who will personally attack me? accepting what dogma? Who’s they? Are you a vendor? If not why are you talking about the many vendors complaints that have gone unanswered and unregognizsed for years. You have no experience as a vendor, or farmer, so please, stop telling customers false information.

“You have no experience as a vendor, or farmer, so please, stop telling customers false information.”

Which information exactly is false?

Hi. I am from Ann Arbor, currently livng in Portland, Oregon. I’m a big fan of farmer’s markets, and the controversy with the new site plan for the market was going on before I left A2. It seems that issue, and many others were never resolved. That saddens me, because the A2 market can and should be a great institution for everyone involved.

Here in Portland, OR, we have a very large market with several different types of vendors, and it seems to work well for everyone.

After reading about this A2 controversy, I was interested to know what the rules at the Portland Market were. It’s pretty complicated, and I’m including a link to it at the end. The vendor rules start on pg 10 of the PDF. I think the problems that are being discussed here fall under the “product representative” and “second farm” category, and the Portland market has very specific guidelines and limitations on those on pg. 12.

A major difference between the Portland market and the Ann Arbor market is that the Portland market is a non-profit organization and receives no funding from the city or state.

I don’t fully understand all of the issues in the situation. It does seem like there’s no place other than this blog for people’s greivances to be adressed, which is a problem.

I highly encourage everyone involved in this to visit larger markets in other towns and learn about them to see a path for the future of the Ann Arbor market.

http://www.portlandfarmersmarket.org/pdfs/PFM_2007_web.pdf

Thompson, why do you fight so hard against fairness and equity at the market? You know, having a lottery for stall spaces would even the playing field a bit. A stall lottery at the beginning of each season would allow vendors access to spaces that they might not otherwise get. It would allow customers the opportunity to know where their favorite vendor will be from week to week without having to guess. It would split up some vendors who act as a cartel.

A great example of how a lottery works is right across the street from the Public Market – at Community High. There isn’t a whole lot of complaining about their student placement lottery that happens every year. It’s not “gamboling”.

At the Ann Arbor Public Market, all spaces are not equal in terms of foot traffic. Is that why you campaigned for extending dead man’s alley, Thompson? So that those vendors you love so much – those who cheated to get their seniority – could continue making wads of money on the “main aisle”?? Leaving the artisans and dailies in the dead mans alley ghetto?

It was your drivel in front of council, along with Robertello’s, Gracia’s, Vena, Brock, Wasem’s, and a few other vendors, that helped piss away nearly $90,000 out of the Market Operating Fund, just because you didn’t like the design that was proposed!! Without an expansion of the market, with scarce public resources and funds, then the Market Operating Rules needed changing in order to increase diversity, flush out the negative vendors who didn’t want anything to threaten their monopoly and cozy status with all recent Market Managers, and provide a more equal opportunity. Changes in the rules would also benefit Ann Arbor consumers, as diversity at the market would foster a lively competition, and perhaps keep prices a little lower in comparison to Whole Foods and other markets that charge top dollar for organics, which we need more of BTW.

Oh, and Thompson, cut the crap about ad hominem attacks. You attack reformers without knowing the full history of the market, and you have sided with the wrong vendors. Maybe you’re some kind of Republican thug operative. You don’t speak for all citizens either, so watch what you say on that podium in front of all those public bodies you have made a career out of appearing in front of.

Regarding the seniority system at the Public Market: the Ann Arbor market is one of the exceptions that allows seniority in the first place. It is proving to be an unworkable system, as there are records that only go back so far, so claims cannot be validated anymore – go ask the city’s legal staff who researched this. Some vendors cheated to get their seniority, others jumped the line, and now the city seems unwilling to fix it. One would hope that the “new” Public Market Advisory Commission will take up the cause of fairness and equity, and get some real changes made to the rules. The Ann Arbor News, and other media outlets should take note, and provide the scrutiny needed to make this a fair process, as the city staff likes to hide their actions.

Vendors that come forward with greivances have been harassed and physically assaulted. The past commission was ousted because they knew the greivances and had many of their own.

Have been witness to several vendors that have 3 stalls put 10 plants or a table with club sized summer zuchini in one of their stalls. 2 vendors utilize one stall together to display a neighboring vendors basil and their checkout table.

Why were “the friends of the market” against vendors receiving heated sheds for winter use?

Ms. Black is leaving as manager

Thanks Emily for the reference to the Portland Market rules. In general, the AA and Portland rules are very similar. I particularly note that both restrict vendors to a maximum of three stalls except for some senior vendors that are grandfathered four stalls. Both have stalls that are permanently assigned and those that are assigned on a daily basis.

There are some differences. The Portland market demands that vendors advertising as “organic” be certified organic growers as required by the USDA National Organic Program. The Friends of the Market have argued that this should also be the case in AA, but the past Market Commission refused to include it in the rules. In general the Portland market manager appears to have greater discretion in the Market operation than the AA market manager. However the recent changes in the AA rules and market ordinance moved in this direction.

A final point, the AA market is supported by the vendor fees, it does not receive any direct support from city taxes.

Joe, Bruce is still waiting for a response to his post #65. While you are at it, how about a reference for the claim that I oppose heated sheds? Or is this yet another case of something that you “know”. Just know without any basis or fact. I am willing to meet with Julie, the original poster of this thread, and let her review materials supporting any statements I make. I only ask that she, as independent observer, post that my statements are accurate.

Thompson, you doth protest too much!! In post #70, you skewer Joe M for claiming YOU oppose heated sheds, yet if you re-read post#68, Joe M asks why the “fiends of the market” opposed heated sheds. Are you admitting that YOU are the Fiends of the Market???

Perhaps Joe M caught some of the many versions of the Glenn Thompson Show on CTN.

Also, the market is not only supported by vendor fees, it is subsidized by the DDA which collects parking revenues, and is responsible for the maintenance of the parking lot. The proposed renovations will be funded for one third of the costs by the city taxpayers through Parks and Rec monies, one third by the DDA, and one third by the Market Operating Fund. The Public Market is also funded by special events, Garage-a-palooza, the Artisans Market, and may soon be funded by other events if the Public Market is made into a space that can accomodate many other things. Vendor fees become the city’s money once paid. The Market is part of a PUBLIC SPACE, the citizens “own” it and should decide what uses the space is put to.

vendors are to maintain a certificate if they LABEL their products as organically grown. Check out the new city inspection forms.
If someone is labeling products as organically grown and does not have a certificate then you can contact Colleen Collier at the MI Dept. of AG. Then the complaint is sent to NOP for review.
They are exempt if their sales are 5000.$ or less.

People who sell or label a product “organic” when they know it does not meet USDA standards can be fined up to $11,000 for each violation.

Posted 11/12/02
Q: How are producers whose company names include the term “organic” affected by the NOP regulations? For example, could a company selling organically produced vegetables call itself Blue Sky Organic?

A: The short answer is yes, as long as that company is not trying to mislead by using that name. For a more thorough explanation, I refer you to a pertinent section of the Preamble to the NOP regulations below:

Labeling – Changes Requested But Not Made

(1) “Organic” in Company Names. Many commenters stated that the term, “organic,” must not be used as part of a company name if the company does not market organically produced foods. They are concerned that the term in a company name would incorrectly imply that the product, itself, is organically produced.

While we understand commenter concerns, we do not know the extent of the problem. We do not believe those concerns require such a prohibition in the regulations at this time. These regulations may not be the best mechanism to address the issue. Section 6519(b) of the Act provides the Secretary with the authority to take action against misuse of the term, “organic.” USDA will monitor use of the term, “organic,” in company names and will work with the FTC to take action against such misuse of the term. These determinations must be made on a case-by-case basis.

P. Stark’s comments clearly illustrate why many of us, the Friends of the Market, have advocated that the Market rules should restrict advertising “organic” at the Market to certified organic producers.

Quite simply, for the good of the market, a customer should have as much confidence in the meaning of organic at the Market as at a supermarket. P. Starks comments show that this is not the case. The vendor cannot put his product in a package,label it organic, and sell it at a supermarket. But he can put many products on a table at the Market, and place a sign over the table labeling all the produce as organic and that is OK.

P. Stark’s produce may be organically grown, but there isn’t any independent check or test. The only information we have is the advertising of the producer. There are almost as many non-certified producers advertising “organic” at the Market as there are certified ones. There is even one advertising as certified that does not appear to be so. Are we to believe all of these are meeting the NOP requirements for organic?

We cannot rely on the lax enforcement standards of the Bush administration for quality control at the Ann Arbor Market. The Michigan Organic Act, which is more stringent in allowable advertising, is a much better model. But we should not rely on either state of federal enforcement. it is much easier and simpler to incorporate the Michigan standards as a market rule.

What Ann Arbor citizens want and need at our market is more organic producers. The few organic producers compete now with many other businesses that furnish organic produce, such as Krogers, Busch’s, Whole Foods, Four Seasons, etc.

Nineteen years ago, when I was a graduate student, I would work at Renaissance Acres Organic Herb Farm in trade for organic veggies that would be fed to my pregnant wife, and then my children once they were born and growing up. We would weed plants by hand, and never sprayed any chemical on the produce. A few weeks ago, while out at the Renaissance Acres farm, I observed Mr Stark using a car vac to take pests off his cabbages and tomato plants. I can vouch for this produce as being organically produced, but why trust me? Go see for yourself.

Certification to advertise as organic is cumbersome and costly for smaller producers such as we have at our market, and may lead to the loss of our few organic producers. I would be more concerned with what kinds of pesticide residues could be found on the non-organic produce sold at the market.

I advocate the city get rid of the buying and selling.

Is Mr. Thompson stating he can’t rely on federal or state government. But he can rely on the city’s market rules and city code? The city has shown it does not follow it’s own rules now, by allowing buying and selling.
When you have a manager that states she “doen’t want to know” or “I know of about 20 vendors that are cheating but I’m not going to do anything about it”, this is against city code. On the organic issue, The rules already exist at the fed and state level, and a complaint can easily be made.

I have lived in the area since 1969 and have been a long time supporter of the market and real organic farmers. Many people know of Glenn Thompson and think he is quite off his rocker. I was at a planning commsion meeting a while ago and saw Glen Thompson reach across a man and grab on to a womans papers that were in her lap. She seemed shocked and struggled to hang on to the papers. What man attacks a woman in this way in Ann Arbor and gets away with it. Why is Thompson attacking well known organic farmers in our community and helping chemical farmers who buy and sell and live in other counties. Thompson is just that crazy and gulable to believe the lies of farmers who are poisioning the land. We should give senority to Washtenaw county organic farmers first as they help protect our water, especially those up stream and have tributaries that feed into our water supply. What makes this country great is our freedom of speech, so that even someone like crazy glenn thompson can repeat something

word at the market is that thompson is friends with Jessica the market manager and robertello, a vendor who buys and sells baked goods. One saturday I saw thompson walking at the market with his whitey tidies two inches above his pants and his shirt tucked into them. On the MLCC’s website it shows that robertello’s “farm store” sold alcohol and cigaretes to minors. Now thats a farmer for you. What is going on with the city.

Here is a disturbing article from today’s Ann Arbor News about unsafe food at the Farmer’s Market being ordered destroyed by a state inspector.

Is unsafe food common at the Market? Isn’t the market manager supposed to see that food is inspected locally, rather than relying on the state?

Maybe the Dept of Agriculture inspectors should take another very close look at Crapnick’s, er, I mean Kapnick’s baked goods. Their inspectors a couple of years ago found rodent droppings on their premises. Beware of the chocolate chip cookies, those may not be chocolate chips…

crapnick’s displays their fruit on the city sidewalk underneath their tables. Do they know how dirty the sidewalks are? Other markets maintain vendors can display foods on their tables only.

Jesus, who knew that behind the scenes at the Farmer’s Market there dwelt a catty little remake of Mean Girls with beefy sunburned dudes, hippy organiwussies with floppy straw hats, and the freaking Amish stepping into all the bitchy, juvenile girl roles.

Fuck me with pitch fork why don’t you, ‘cause it’ll hurt less than listening to all of this pissing and moaning.

Amen PSD! I’m surprised that the whole place hasn’t burned to the ground with all of the flaming hatred going on here.

PSD don’t understand what you are saying.
Care to try again? Are you a farmer? Notice you often contribute to Ann Arbor is overrated site.

“Flaming hatred”?
Where and when and how big a pitchfork?

Intersting note about the bread article. That the hands were not being washed. Robertello has been following vendors into the bathroom and even splashed water on one vendor. Robertello said he was on potty patrol. Did robertello tell on Mill Pond just like he and Upton did before and made up a story about erie orchards to get them kicked out--robertello is on video contradicting statements he made to the police--he is not to be trusted- who tipped off the news- more dirty tricks and lies?

No commission meetings until January? Why?
Many vendors have commented they are happy to see Jessica gone as manager.
Where’s the advertising $$$ for market that vendors pay for? The past three years $$$$$$ spent for advertising went to Ms. Black’s elective facial and jaw surgery.

What happened on Wed. is a direct result of Jessica Black and Jayne Miller failure to do their job.

Hi again. I guess I’d like to reiterate/clarify my earlier point. Glenn is correct that the rules of the Portland Farmer’s Market do state that you can only say “organic” if that means USDA Organic. HOWEVER, I think most Portland customers understand that USDA Organic is just one route a conscious grower can go to make their product stand out. The market also encourages vendors to have as much information about their product as possible, so signs and pamphlets can let people know what exactly what your growing processes are.

USDA Organic is still a somewhat meaningful category, but it is under constant threat due to pressures from Big Ag. I keep up with the Organic Consumers Association, at

http://www.organicconsumers.org/

to keep abreast of that situation. But many local growers meet or exceed the standards of USDA Organic. Or perhaps a grower has their own beliefs and methods, which are satisfactory to you as a consumer. The great thing about a farmer’s market is the ability to get to know your farmer, and the farmer can make that easier with signage and written info, as well as by being informed and eager to answer questions.

I think the market will need to have more rules than it does now, because it is getting bigger and has higher visibility. I think vendors need to accept a certain amount of regulation, such as truth in labelling, and keeping food at a proper temperature, etc. BUT the vendors need rules, too, to protect their own interests: a rule against “buying and selling” for example, could fit in that category.

Why do people shop at farmer’s markets, if not to support their local farmers? I don’t understand the attitude of some of the consumers I’ve seen blogging about this. If you don’t care about them, then shop somewhere else. Do you just want a pretty outdoor market where you buy the exact same stuff that’s at Whole Foods? Well, maybe Whole Foods should just have an outdoor market in their parking lot when the weather’s good. (With the popularity of Farmer’s Markets, don’t be surprized if that actually happens). Do you want to support the pretty facade of a market, with the shiny tomatoes and beautiful flowers, or do you actually support the mission of a farmer’s market, which is to have a unique opportunity to have an intimate relationship with your food, and therefore the person who grew it – who is a person, with a personality and needs of their own. Small family farmers are one of the most marginalized groups in our society. They are not subsidized like Big Ag, yet they have to pay and spend extra time (which farmers rarely have) doing paperwork to get certified as Organic.

If you love the market, love the farmers. Do your best to understand the issues they are up against.

Correction to my previous comment. There already IS a rule against “buying and selling,” I forgot. Obviously an enforcement issue, as others have been saying.

“Why do people shop at farmer’s markets, if not to support their local farmers?”

To buy food for their dinner.

“I don’t understand the attitude of some of the consumers I’ve seen blogging about this. If you don’t care about them, then shop somewhere else.”

Those other options are more limited than they are in Portland, where there’s been an effort to ensure that supermarkets can survive within walking distance of downtown residential neighborhoods.

I like the farmer’s market, but I don’t have a particular commitment to buying locally—I buy there because (for part of the year) it’s the best place to get produce that’s on my walk (or bike/bus ride) between home and work.

Ever fighting the good fight, the staff at the Cornucopia Institute has been working long and hard to force the giants of the organic dairy industry to comply with the USDA organic rules. Thanks to their advocacy, the USDA recently found Aurora Organic Dairy to be in “willful violation” of the organic standards. Among other things, Aurora was cited for illegally confining cattle, and knowingly selling non-organic milk as organic. Aurora is the nation’s largest private label dairy operation; its milk is sold under store brands for Trader Joe’s, Wal-Mart, Target, Costco, Wild Oats, and Safeway and other supermarket chains.
Obviously, this bad behavior has the potential to erode consumers’ trust in the organic label. We still believe strongly in organic dairy … but we’re being more careful about where we get it. As if we needed it, this is just one more reason to support small, locally run farm operations.

i shop at the farmer’s market because i like the food that i buy there.

i also like the convenient location, the diverse selection, and the milieu.

as for the farmers … well, mostly i am indifferent.

does that make me some kind of criminal or weirdo?

doesn’t make you either one. However when one poses as a farmer and are only middleman peddlers there’s a problem.

what is the problem? i mean for me — is it the food? the location? the selection? the milieu?

Larry Lev. Garry Stephenson and others at the Oregon State University have conducted surveys on why people shop at farmers markets. Quality and selection are always very high in the stated reasons. however, if directly asked the question “How important is supporting local farmers?”, most will answer that it is important.

Nina Planck stated in one of her papers that the reason people shop at farmers markets is the perception of quality or price.

I think the perception of quality, either through greater selection or greater freshness is the primary reason for the customers at the Ann Arbor Farmers Market. If we consider shopping in general it is usually a combination of price, quality, and convenience. For most the market is not particularly convenient. We have to make a special trip, it has to be when the market is open, and we have to pay for parking. There may be a price advantage at the market if you buy pecks or bushels but I do not think there is any advantage when purchasing in smaller quantities.

I think the “support local farmers” is over rated as a reason because it is such a nice politically correct answer. No one is against it, but how many would go the the local farmer if they thought the product was inferior? Buy American didn’t work very well for the auto industry when Honda and Toyota were perceived to be better quality.

So peter, I think you are guilty of being more honest than politically correct. And I think that maintaining the perception of the AA Market as the source of the highest quality produce in AA is very important for the Market. Having organic mean certified organic is one of the ways to preserve the truth in advertising and defined quality.

Prof. Honeyman, I see your point that you and many shoppers are happy regardless of these behind-the-scenes issues. Your transactions are presumably satisfying, or you wouldn’t make them. However, there can be “harm” to consumers (e.g. higher prices, less selection) that result from the policy decisions even if consumers are satisfied and unaware of the harm. Maybe you were just expressing your own personal satisfaction, but if you meant to imply more broadly that there aren’t meaningful consumer repercussions from these policy issues, I disagree.

Mr. Thompson, you said you understand that “a potential vendor has never been turned away from the market because of lack of space.” In describing the advice you gave to a potential vendor, you said “there were several established apple vendors, but as a certified organic grower, I thought he would be successful.” Did you mean you thought his business would be successful, or his application to sell there would be successful? I’m asking because if you meant the latter, deciding applications based on what others are selling sounds indirectly due to a space issue. I am genuinely unsure which you meant, however.

Dozie, both Farmer’s Market and Public Market are used informally, while I think its formal name is “City of Ann Arbor Public Market.” See the city’s Farmer’s Market website , which links to the formal Public Market policies. As an aside, its What’s in Season page seems slightly outdated, and really, are pretzels ever not in season? :-)

In response to Aag and my comment on the potential apple vendor: I meant that he would be successful as an apple vendor at the AA Market. He is already successful as a business. Subsequent discussions with this grower indicated he was mainly interested in future expansion since he is selling most, if not all, of his production capacity at the present time.

In response to the space issue, there were at least three unused spaces under the market canopies this last Saturday. I can post photos. There were also vendors on the sidewalk and in the open “sand lot” area. The space question is complex. When I first considered the market issue I assumed that if people were in the “over flow” areas there must be insufficient space under the canopy. But it is just not that simple. Some vendors want to to be near friends, maybe three spaces together, or being in the same space every week is more important than location.

The Market Manager’s job has been posted. Deadline is October 22.

I nominate Glenn Thompson to apply, he seems to know EVERYTHING about the market.

There is a “farmer” that sells blueberries, this vendor also sells snow cones and coffee. Ice and sugar with artificial flavoring. why is this farmer selling this type of non- farm products? MHO the snow cones are not “Quality farm products”.
Also noticed Mill Pond was selling unwrapped products again. Where is the manager?
If most of you are not familiar…Money is one of those objects that is filled with germs. Handling money and unwrapped baked products is just gross. One can wash produce.

On the issue of wrapping baked goods, I would agree with anon. The inspector may have had discretion in how to handle the earlier violation, but it does seem like a clear health code violation. The argument that wrapping would cost too much or take too much time seems poor. It would take time and cost more, but so do many other basic hygiene rules. That’s part of the cost of selling prepared foods or providing restaurant service. Disposable plastic gloves are another way of handling unwrapped prepared foods, throwing the gloves out between each sales transaction. However, I don’t think prepared foods are allowed to be stored unwrapped outdoors in the first place, regardless of transaction handling.

Just like the Ann Arbor News publishes the results of health inspections of restaurants in the area, they should publish the results of MI Dept of Agriculture inspections of any of the vendors at the Farmers Market that undergo inspections. Those restaurant inspections give me useful information about cleanliness and hygiene, so that I can decide if I want to patronize an establishment or not.

Heard an interesting comment recently regarding vendors that are considered the BACKBONE of the market that do ALL the work. Which ones are these? And why?

It is reasonable to consider the vendors with high attendance as the backbone of the market. These are the regulars that the customers can depend upon to be there throughout the year. They are very important to the market, but I do not think it is correct to say they do all the work.

Using the last years attendance data from the market manager the only vendor that attended the market more than 80 times was Kapnick Orchards (Scott Robertello). Annual vendors that attended more that 70 times were: Jewett, Wasem, and Ozdemir. Daily vendors that attended more than 70 times were: Kern Road, Sheppard, and D. Marx.

Why did the Mayor recently remove Mr. Robertello from the Market Commission?

See what I mean? Glenn Thompson seems to know EVERYTHING about the market.

Then he must know that the baked goods from Kapnick are purchased premade frozen. This was stated by Mr. Robertello himself. Also past manager stated she knew this but was not going to do anyrhing about it.
Currently the city will not state if this is an allowable practice or not. Odd?? Given the fact the city recently inspected a few new bakeries.
This business also grows fruits, however none of their pies contains any of their own fruits that they claim to grow and harvest. MHO Very odd!

Since these vendors come year round they should pay more for their stalls. Hoping this will be brought to city council, as the current practice is unfair/unequal. Didn’t the rules incorporate fairness and equity, but ignored this big issue.
Jayne Miller is not doing her job. Seems to be an inflated ego when she stated “anything I want/ask for ,the city will give me”. Was Jessica demoted?

Question for market vendors..

Do any City Council Members, the Mayor, Jayne Miller, Christen Smith, old Kevin McDonald(had a farm)(lol),“Frazier dude”, etc. ever shop or frequently shop at the market?
Do any of them supply their family/friends/parties or gardens with products produced from local Washtenaw County Farmers ? Perhaps for holidays, birthdays, city functions etc.
One vendor stated he saw the mayor once several years ago while campaigning. Didn’t buy anything.
Also,does the mayor support artisans over farmers? Can remember reading his letter to the commission supporting artisans over farmers. Correct?

Winifred, why don’t you ask Glenn Thompson? He’s SUCH an authority on the market and ALL the goings on there…

For what it’s worth, I shop at the Farmer’s Market nearly every Saturday (at 7:30 or 8:00 am, if you want to be precise) between March and December. I sometimes shop on Wednesdays, although that’s a rarity.
I purchase plants for my garden, and produce for my table.

Name
Agency: Labor & Economic Growth

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If a corporation is to operate under one or more names other than the corporation’s true name, a Certificate of Assumed Name (BCS/CD 541)must also be filed. The assumed name must be distinguishable from the names of active limited partnerships, corporations or limited liability companies.

Prospective incorporators should wait until the articles are filed before ordering or purchasing items such as signs, business cards and stationery to avoid problems that may arise due to a conflict with another entity’s name.

Considering the city hasn’t any rules for criteria for inspections or products, it is understandably impossible to maintain that any vendor is the backbone of the market. Shitty city nspections of these “backbone vendors” were done almost ten years ago. Since the rule of inspections wasn’t promulgated at the time shouldn’t vendors receive a refund for those inspections?
Why hasn’t the “friends of the market” responded publicly about the buying and selling, to the council, commoission, or manager.
All Iv’e read so far is why people shop at the market. What’s your opinion of why farmers come to this market. There are many reasons and the real farmers don’t do it for the $$$$. They don’t buy and sell but are considered trouble if they come forward with their concerns.
Why is the manager paid over 38,000$ and the mayor makes 40,000$. why over paid. Why are vendors being cheated like this?

Thanks for asking about the city council members, fuzzy, didn’t know you cared.

I frequently see Joan Lowenstein at the AA Farmers Market. I have also seen Steve Kunselman, Sabre Briere, Mike Anglin and Ron Suarez there this past summer. I saw Mayor Hieftje there once a year of two ago. I usually go between 8:00 and 10:00 and would not likely see earlier or later shoppers.

Anon asked about Jessica’s new position. I understand that it is a promotion and that she will still have a role in supervising the Market, but not the direct daily management.

Ah Glen you have avoided the question again. Why isn’t your group helping farmers address the buying and selling that is currently taking place? Why should a farmer come to sell their products at this market? It offers cheating, incompetence, customers that tell try to get the farmer to sell for cheap.
I’ve heard One Orchard stops selling apples after October because the others that come year round are selling way too cheap! (Perhaps a case) of buying and selling??

I saw the mayor at the market on Saturday around noon. He was filling up a big shoulder bag. He often sits beside Coleman and talks for awhile.

Joan Lowenstein is there a lot too. But what does it matter if council members shop the market or not? They all seem to support the market. They have voted for a lot of improvements and solar panels to boot!

Apples after October? Several local growers have cold storage facilities. They can offer good tasting apples in the spring, let alone November.

I have been going to the market for years. I don’t think there is much if any,“buying and selling.” Some posters here seem to have their own anti-market agenda.

Some posters have their own anti-cheating agenda.

Is there something wrong with pointing out wrongdoing? Its like some of the letters to the Ann Arbor News about Mill Pond Bakery, and the handling of bread and money without washing hands in between. A few people wrote in complaining about the inspector (who was right to give citations) and only a couple of readers wrote in support of proper public health practices. Too many people are just plain oblivious.

Apples in spring? There are Dept of Agriculture regulations that apply, how are we consumers to know if those regs are being followed or not?

Laura, I also have been going to the Ann Arbor market for years too, and unless I can go to visit all of the vendors to see their operations, how would I know what they do/don’t do? How do you? Are you operating on faith??

Thompson, no I really don’t care, just wanted to see if you take bait. Try responding to some of the other posters who have called you out.

Cold storage facilities? do you mean a refridgerator?
Long term storage of apples is only accomplished by one method and that is of the atmospherically controlled rooms. These are rooms that are inspected and licensed by the Dept. Of Ag. Their site has the list the names of growers that have these specialized rooms. http://www.michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-1569_16993_19105—-,00.html
Here’s the link It will answer all your questions about storage.

LauraB, Harvest all day Friday, load the truck with the products you actually produced, get your lazy ass out of bed at 3:30am Sat. and make it to the market. While there, selling amongst the vendors that simply load their trucks with products they did not produce, let us know how it feels to have the city turn a blinds eye to the deception to the public. I know many people that are come to market as both long time vendors and are there as customers also. as customers they are appalled this buying and selling continues and as vendor are appalled at the deception.

The list of growers with these specialized rooms to keep apples for long term, is at the end of the information. Is your grower on the list?

FRUITS AND VEGETABLES; CONTROLLED ATMOSPHERE STORAGE

Act 228 of 1959

AN ACT to promote the development of the Michigan fruit and vegetable industry; to define certain types and methods of fruit and vegetable storage; to prohibit the sale of fruits and vegetables misbranded as to type of storage; to provide for records; to provide for licensing of certain fruit and vegetable storage facilities; to provide for registration and permits for packers or repackers; to provide for revocation of licenses; to provide for the enforcement of this act; and to provide penalties for violation of this act.

History: 1959, Act 228, Eff. Mar. 19, 1960 .

The People of the State of Michigan enact:

286.371 Definitions.

Sec. 1. As used in this act: (a) “Apples” means all varieties of apples.

(b) “Controlled atmosphere storage” means the storage of fruits or vegetables in an approved sealed storage room or in an approved sealed storage building, or in a sealed storage space within the room or building, under controlled conditions of time in days, oxygen content, carbon dioxide content, and temperature as established by this act or rules adopted under this act. The term controlled atmosphere may be referred to by the initials “CA” or similar terms or abbreviations.

(c) “Director” means the director of the Michigan department of agriculture or his or her designated agents.

(d) “Sealed storage room”, “sealed storage space”, or “sealed storage building” means sealed storage spaces in which controlled atmosphere is maintained, inferred, advertised, or represented as having a controlled atmosphere.

History: 1959, Act 228, Eff. Mar. 19, 1960 ;—Am. 2000, Act 53, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 2000 .

© 2002 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

286.372 Controlled atmosphere storage for fruits and vegetables; prohibited representations.

Sec. 2. A person or other legal entity shall not sell, label, describe, advertise, offer, expose, exchange, or transport fruits or vegetables for sale represented as having been held under controlled atmosphere storage conditions as specified in this act, alone or with other words, or use any such terms or form or words or symbols of similar import on any container or lot of fruits or vegetables advertised, sold, offered for sale, or transported for sale within this state unless the fruits or vegetables have been stored in compliance with the provisions of this act and rules promulgated by the director.

History: 1959, Act 228, Eff. Mar. 19, 1960 ;—Am. 2000, Act 53, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 2000 .

© 2002 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

286.372a Construction of storage room, space, or building; installation and maintenance of thermometer; accessibility of gas analyzer.

Sec. 2a. (1) Each sealed storage room, sealed storage space, or sealed storage building used as a controlled atmosphere storage facility for fruits or vegetables shall be constructed of materials that will allow for the establishment and maintenance of the required levels of carbon dioxide, oxygen, and temperature and that are acceptable to the director.

(2) Each sealed storage room, sealed storage space, or sealed storage building shall have a Fahrenheit thermometer properly installed and maintained. An approved gas analyzer for the measurement of carbon dioxide and oxygen gases shall be readily accessible to all sealed rooms or units.

History: Add. 2000, Act 53, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 2000 .

© 2002 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

286.373 Record; location; contents; review.

Sec. 3. (1) A person or other legal entity storing fruits or vegetables in a sealed storage room shall keep a daily record at a convenient location adjacent to the storage room, storage space, or storage building from the day of sealing the room, space, or building to the day of opening of the storage room, space, or building.

(2) The daily records kept under subsection (1) shall indicate the atmospheric conditions in each sealed storage space from the date of sealing until the date the space is opened. The daily records shall indicate the date and time of recording, the temperatures in degrees Fahrenheit, the percentages of carbon dioxide, and the percentage of oxygen.

(3) The daily record shall be subject to review by the director at any time for a period of at least 1 year from date of sealing.

History: 1959, Act 228, Eff. Mar. 19, 1960 ;—Am. 2000, Act 53, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 2000 .

© 2002 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

286.374 Rules and regulations.

Sec. 4. The director may promulgate rules and regulations regarding the controlled atmosphere storage of fruit or vegetables pursuant to the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 PA 306, MCL 24.201 to 24.328.

History: 1959, Act 228, Eff. Mar. 19, 1960 ;—Am. 2000, Act 53, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 2000 .

© 2002 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

286.374a Sealed storage room; conditions.

Sec. 4a. (1) A person or other legal entity desiring to maintain a licensed sealed storage room shall notify the director within 5 days after the date of sealing. The oxygen within the sealed storage room maintained for apples shall be 5% or lower within 14 days after the storage room is sealed by the operator. An operator shall make available for inspection, upon request of the director, the daily record for the sealed storage rooms.

(2) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (3), the apples shall be stored in a continuously sealed storage room that does not have more than 5% oxygen for a minimum period of 60 days, except that gala and jonagold varieties may be removed from storage in not less than 45 days.

(3) The oxygen level in any sealed storage room maintained for apples may be more than 5% for an accumulated time not to exceed 10 days (240 hours) during the storage period. If the atmospheric conditions have been interrupted, the minimum storage period shall be increased to 70 days for all fruit except for gala and jonagold, which shall have a minimum storage period of 55 days.

(4) All sealed storage rooms maintained for apples shall be sealed by the operator. To qualify for “CA” storage, the room must be sealed on or before November 15 of the storage year. At the time of inspection by a department representative, the representative must place an official seal on the door. An operator shall not break the seal and shall not enter the storage room during the days required for the sealed storage period, except as provided in subsection (3). If interruptions in atmospheric conditions occur, the operator shall notify the department within 48 hours after the atmospheric conditions in the sealed storage room are interrupted. Sealed storage rooms whose atmospheric conditions were interrupted may be resealed by an authorized representative of the department.

(5) The air temperature of any sealed storage room maintained for apples shall not exceed 35 degrees Fahrenheit for jonathan, rome beauty, delicious (all), and stayman varieties and the temperature shall not exceed 41 degrees Fahrenheit for all other varieties during the interruption period.

History: Add. 2000, Act 53, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 2000 .

© 2002 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

286.375 Controlled atmosphere storage for fruits and vegetables; license, application, fee, inspection, expiration, renewal, exemption.

Sec. 5. (1) A person or other legal entity shall not operate any sealed type storage room for fruits or vegetables where controlled atmosphere is used without first obtaining a license from the director for each sealed storage room. An application for license shall be made on forms furnished by the director.

(2) A fee of $35.00 per room shall accompany each application. The director shall not issue a license under this act unless the director or his or her authorized agent has inspected the storage facilities and found those facilities to be in compliance with this act and rules promulgated under this act.

(3) All licenses expire on November 15 of the year after issue and may be renewed annually unless the license is revoked or suspended.

(4) Fruits or vegetables not represented as controlled atmosphere storage are not required to be in compliance with the requirements of this act.

History: 1959, Act 228, Eff. Mar. 19, 1960 ;—Am. 1969, Act 69, Imd. Eff. July 21, 1969 ;—Am. 2000, Act 53, Imd. Eff. Mar. 30, 2000 .

© 2002 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

286.376 License; denial, suspension, or revocation; notice and opportunity for hearing; administrative fine; warning; action by attorney general to recover fine; injunction; disposition of payments.

Sec. 6. (1) In addition to any other penalties or sanctions provided for by law, the director after notice and opportunity for a hearing under the administrative procedures act of 1969, 1969 PA 306,