Arbor Update

Ann Arbor Area Community News

Nazis to March on Cadillac

8. July 2004 • Ari Paul
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Sources from are saying that “On Sunday, July 11th, members of the White Supremacist National Socialist
Movement are gathering in Cadillac, Michigan.” Those who wish to stand in opposition are urged to “meet at the MSU union by 7:45 Sunday morning, and ride with us to confront the Nazis. Rides are available. If you aren’t coming from Lansing, meet at Kenwood park in Cadillac at 11:00. The nazi gathering is supposed to start around noon.”

Here is the ADL’s profile of this movement.

  1. Fuck those Nazi assholes . . . wish I could go protest but I lack transportation to Lansing or Cadillac.
       —Jared Goldberg    Jul. 8 '04 - 05:37PM    #
  2. my suggestion for those who REALY want to oppose such groups, is go undercover. Join, infiltrate, then destroy from within.

    Get control of their web sites, change the content to good stuff.

    Get control of their bank accounts, empty them with all funds going to NAACP.

    I think you can imagine other ways to destroy from with in yourself.

    Even if we just write this idea enough, it will cause the groups to start being very careful of who they let join, so they can’t get bigger.
       —Just a Voice    Jul. 8 '04 - 06:08PM    #
  3. Unless a certain group poses an imminent danger of terrorism, say, I think it is best to avoid surreptitious or illegal activity towards even vile groups like the Nazis. (And the police, not private citizens, should infiltrate, as a rule, I suppose.)

    There are enough ways to discredit such groups, e.g., using their own stupid words against them, without having to lie or break the law, etc.
       —David Boyle    Jul. 8 '04 - 07:33PM    #
  4. Wait, I thought we liberals were just silencing freedom of speech when we protest groups like the National Socialists or the Republicans at their convention!

    Maybe this is an example of why protesting is not the same as stifling a viewpoint. Indeed, it is freely expressing one’s own disagreement with another group.

    Is it illegal to spray the nazis with silly string? :)
       —Eric Goldberg    Jul. 8 '04 - 09:11PM    #
  5. livshiz would find it ‘undemocratic’ if we protested the nazis just because we ‘disagree’ with their whole white supremcy thing…

    ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 8 '04 - 10:10PM    #
  6. Actually ari – you want to protest fine. I think you are wasting yoru time because its talking to a wall, and basiaclly amounts to emotional masturbation – but you do what see fit.

    The comparison between neo-nazis and republican is fairly out of line. I think that he problem with tehpoplitical culture in the US today – si that both sides would rather yell at each other with megaphones then sit down and talk. The reality is – neither party is entirely right. The problem is that both sides have bceome dideological – and have gotten to the poitn where neither side is actually listening – they are talking past each other…and teh liberas are as gulity of this, if not more guilty then conservaties – because their response to teh mere existience of peopel who disagreee is to protest. The honest evaluation of differnt ideas has not happened in a while – and maybe thats why things have gotten so black and white in this country – neither party can see the gray.
       —David Livshiz    Jul. 9 '04 - 11:48AM    #
  7. I agree, David. Too bad the Kerry-McCain ticket never took off.

    And damn shame that I won’t be attending any Jew-Nazi tea parties unless I get sent to Hell—the really awful version of Hell.
       —Adam Soclof    Jul. 9 '04 - 12:14PM    #
  8. “Emotional masturbation” is not a nice thing to say; it is nice to see Ari is willing to protest an anti-Semitic, anti-black, anti-gay, etc. movement like Nazism.

    Also, it could be productive; the “Museum of Tolerance” in Los Angeles had some success in getting a former American Nazi, Tom Leyden I think his name was, to “desert” and come over to the other side. He now gives talks for the Simon Wiesenthal Center on how to fight Nazi and white-supremacist movements, I believe; talks informed by his “former-insider perspective.” Maybe Ari can “guilt” some of the Nazis into deserting…
       —David Boyle    Jul. 9 '04 - 12:26PM    #
  9. oh come on – the Museum of Tolerance is a multi-million dollar enterprise, not a collection of rag-tag college studetns yelling at a bunch of morons.

    i am glad that ari is not anti-semitic, anti-blac, or anti-gay – I am too. I am just saying that protesting a small group of deranged individual is not a productive allocation of time. Ari – can spend the same time writting an column that would be read by more people and be more effective. then again – thats just me.

    As for them havign freedom of speech. YOu konw, i srongly disagree with them – but let them speak. I believe that if you let peopel hear them – they’ll make themselves irrelevent…they dont’ need to be shouted down…
       —David Livshiz    Jul. 9 '04 - 12:38PM    #
  10. “I think you are wasting yoru time because its talking to a wall, and basiaclly amounts to emotional masturbation” livshiz

    agreed…as the lead singer of cipher told me the other night, “look everyone hates nazis…if you want to fight racism, work within your own community”...

    “and teh liberas are as gulity of this, if not more guilty then conservaties – because their response to teh mere existience of peopel who disagreee is to protest.” -dlivshiz

    and the conservative reponse is to just say “you hate america”...

    “Abortions for some, tiny American flags for others.” Kodos, ‘The Simpsons’

    -ari p.
       —Ari P.    Jul. 9 '04 - 02:55PM    #
  11. protesting the nazi’s is good and bad –

    good – they are coming to get attention for themselves, to use the media to spread their word. By protesting you 1-make sure that any media coverage will have info along the lines of ‘more protesters than supporters’, 2- you show young impressionable kids that its not kosher, so they cant do any recruiting.

    bad – when you get a large crowd of protesters, it only take a few poeple to make it turn violent

    The last time the KKK/Nazi’s came to ann arbor, we had a large protest, a few people from the detroit ‘socialist’ groups showed up and tried to start some violence. The police, by court order, were protecting the nazi’s right to free speach, and since the protesters couldn’t confront the nazis they confronted the cops instead. This gets you nowhere, and that is why I suggested the ‘undercover’ work. If you are dead set on being in violent conflict with those people, do it right.
       —Just a Voice    Jul. 12 '04 - 11:13AM    #
  12. JAV- Those “Detroit Socialist Groups” were NWROC, now BAMN, as funded by the Detroit Trotskyites. The best thing to come out of that was a black girl who was in a bunch of my classes sheilding a white racist from the BAMN thugs, then making the national talkshow circuit. She’s turned into another BAMNer though, over this AA crusade. Wonder if she knows Luke’s one of the ones that incited that riot, then refused to take responsibility for it in court (that was when I really lost respect for the NWROC folks- they started a riot, then lied about it in court to avoid taking responsibility- if you believe in something enough to fight for it, don’t hide it when faced with the consequences).
       —js    Jul. 12 '04 - 12:01PM    #
  13. Lansing, several years ago had a protest THE DAY AFTER the nazis marched on the Capital. The citizens of Lansing washed the Capital steps on their hands and knees with scrub brushes and soap.

    The front page of the State Journal was a picture of a little girl washing the steps with her mother.

    Of course the LSJ didn’t cover the march itself.

    Please don’t show up on the same day as the nazi’s. Confrontation is useless.

    In a2 demonstraters got in a physical confrontation, the nazis got press all over the place.

    Use your heads people.
       —Steven Cherry    Jul. 15 '04 - 12:04PM    #
  14. Isn’t it better to just ignore racists and hope they’ll go away?

    ...Don’t they really just want the publicity they get from protests against them

    Ignoring a problem never makes it go away. If hate groups encounter no opposition to their activities in a community, they’ll take that to mean that they have no opposition there willing to stand up to them and they will act accordingly. This makes it more likely that hate group activity will increase and they will start hurting people. This also isolates the people they target – people of color, immigrants, religious or ethnic minorities, gays and lesbians, the disabled, women, etc. – making them feel vulnerable and afraid because it seems like no one has their back.

    Besides, the mainstream media are always giving nazis and racist groups millions of dollars in free publicity on talk shows and in pseudo-documentaries that glamorize white power groups. The nazis will get publicity whether we oppose them or not, so that’s not a factor. What we want to publicize is that there are people ready and willing to stand up for human rights and justice.

    When Hitler first appeared on the scene in Germany, people thought the best thing to do was to ignore him, hoping he would just go away. That example alone proves how foolish it is to close our eyes and hope that the racists will just disappear on their own.

    What about free speech?

    Free speech shouldn’t endanger people’s lives. You can’t yell “Fire!” in a crowded theater, because people will probably get hurt trying to get out. We think that hate speech acts in the same way – by trying to make certain kinds of people seem less than human and by glorifying violent acts against them – it’s just a matter of time before a follower or supporter of a hate group puts words into action.

    A cross burning, for example, is not free speech or the free exercise of religion—it is an act of racist terror and intimidation.

    We think that hate speech, turning people into scapegoats and targets for hateful action, is an abuse of free speech and that people’s lives are more important than the right of someone to publicly encourage others to target certain groups for a campaign of murder, rape, assault, genocide, ethnic cleansing and terror.
       —antifa    Jul. 16 '04 - 02:17AM    #
       —BILL GRAHM    Apr. 22 '05 - 05:38PM    #
  16. Like fuck im gonna let you stupid nazi mother fuckers come to my hometown and harras us people. You fuckin hillbillies can stay up in the fuckin moutains where you belong. You dumbasses dont belong here.SO GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
       —Sherman Carter    Jun. 17 '05 - 07:35PM    #
  17. ALL 14 words – We must secure the existence of our people and a future for ALL children.
       —KadillaK michiKlan    Jan. 27 '06 - 10:35PM    #
  18. On April 22, 2006, I’m going to declare the State of Michigan as a target state for the National Socialist Movement in the 2008 presidential election in which the NSM will run a presidential and vice-presidential candidate. The NSM intends to campaign there in 2007/2008.

       —NSM National Election Director    Mar. 27 '06 - 08:44AM    #